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Thread: Fate of the ACOG

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskapopo View Post
    Well it does long range as good as the ACOG and it does close range as good as a red dot with the exception of akward position shooting.
    As for the post who was worried about moving parts. I have seen scopes go through torture tests like the Nightforce for example and keep on ticking. There is an add showing a bullet through a soldiers Nightforce scope and it still worked. So I am not worried about robustness just because its a variable scope.
    Pat
    At least in my experiance neither as well, but is close enough for government work

    I currently have 2, 1-4 sights (well 1.1-4) and standing still they are about as good as an aimpoint, moving not so much. The IOR is almost as good as the ACOG at distance, but not quite because it is not bright enough to use BAC. The Accupoint triangle lacks auto ranging and is hard to apply hold over with.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWood View Post
    First, technology has established that anything, be it a red dot or a reticle, in the first focal plane grows in size as magnification is increased. That is one of the characteristics of the FFP.

    My own empirical data, as I sat on a target at 75 yards as night fell, dialing back and forth between 1 and 4x with a Short Dot is that the size of the dot increases with the magnification.

    This is why USO is attemting to bring out a 1-4X with the dot and a large circle in the second focal plane and a reticle in the first

    DWood - your not tracking.

    Assuming you have a CQB reticle -

    What is the value of 1 MIL at 1x? 3.6" right?

    What is the value of 1 MIL at 4x? 3.6" right?

    Yet at 1x there is a huge difference in the way that same 1 MIL visually appears - right?

    This is why - the size of the dot is the size of the dot regardless of what power you have the optic set on.

    This is the advantage of FFP optics - the relationship of the stadia remains constant regardless of the power setting.


    Good luck

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskapopo View Post
    As for cost I want the best optic that will give me an edge and help me come home at the end of my shift. I don't care so much how much it costs now as long as I don't end up paying with my life because I went cheap.
    Now for weight that is a factor but I have got my rifle down to a weight I can handle so its now a moot point. I would not run a RDS without a magnifier anyway and that would bring the weight up to a comparable level. Like I said the new breed of low power variables are sealing the fate on the ACOG and the older full size red dots. The micro red dots still have a role on light weight weapons and as a back up optic. (such as in conjunction with a low power variable to deal with those akward shots you find so daunting. I can accept that you have come to a different conclusion in your journey. Perhaps its because you did not train hard enough with a variable to become familar with them or you gave up too easily or you went cheap on the quality of the optic. Not sure not my problem. But as for me and my training and testing I have found the low power variables to be the best do all optic out there.
    Pat
    All valid reasons for making the personal choice that you have. Extrapolating that to others as an objective superior choice or an RDS killer is the issue. Your statement was hyperbolic and you got called on it.

    Accordingly it would be foolish to presume to speculate as to what my training level is and is not or whether I've not given enough time to one system or another. More significantly you're incorrect on all counts.
    It is bad policy to fear the resentment of an enemy. -Ethan Allen

  4. #84
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    ,,,,,
    Last edited by DWood; 08-01-11 at 20:50.

  5. #85
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    You (MZB) stated that the size of the dot does not change regardless of the power setting. That sir, is incorrect.

    That is exactly why USO is working on a scope with a red dot in the SFP and a reticle in the FFP.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWood View Post
    You (MZB) stated that the size of the dot does not change regardless of the power setting. That sir, is incorrect.

    That is exactly why USO is working on a scope with a red dot in the SFP and a reticle in the FFP.
    I think what he's saying is that while the size of the red dot may increase relative to your perception through the eyepiece. It does not change relative to the size of the target. It covers the same amount of space.
    It is bad policy to fear the resentment of an enemy. -Ethan Allen

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutshot John View Post
    I think what he's saying is that while the size of the red dot may increase relative to your perception through the eyepiece. It does not change relative to the size of the target. It covers the same amount of space.
    And that is a big difference from saying the size of the dot does not change. Otherwise, SFP and FFP reticles would be the same, but they are not.

    EDIT: try staying on a target with a FFP 1-4 as the sun goes down, and dial between 1 and 4 X, and tell me that the size of the dot doesn't change.
    Last edited by DWood; 08-01-11 at 21:05.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWood View Post
    You (MZB) stated that the size of the dot does not change regardless of the power setting. That sir, is incorrect.

    That is exactly why USO is working on a scope with a red dot in the SFP and a reticle in the FFP.

    It is odd - you acknowledge you have an FFP optic, and you say you know what it means - but you seem confused about what it means in practice.

    Again, the size - the number of inches the dot covers does not change regardless of what power you are on. Again - if you think it does - get a piece of grid paper and mark out the paper with a heavy line every inch. Set the paper at 50 or 100 yrds. Turn the dot on. See how much it covers. Turn the power ring up slowly and you will see that the value of dot stays the same.

    And just like an RDS - if the dot is too big and bright to shoot accurately (particularly at night) on 4x - turn the brightness of the dot down to where it becomes opaque.

    Good luck
    Last edited by Mo_Zam_Beek; 08-02-11 at 00:08.

  9. #89
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    All measurments are for arguments sake, not true measurements of any reticule.

    The scope is a 1-10x scope with both FFP and SFP.

    FFP - You have a line that is 5 MOA in width. At 1 power, it is 5 MOA, and looks 5 inches across at 100 yards, measured against a ruler on the target. You then dial it up to 10 power and that same 5 MOA line grows 10x BIGGER. The ruler, you can now see on the target, still measures 5 inches across.

    SFP - That same line that is 5 MOA at 1 power reads 5 inches at 1 power. Now, crank it up to 10 power, and the line stays the same size in the reticle, but now the line measures .5 MOA on the ruler. Why? The reticle doesn't change size at all, only the size of the object being magnified does.

    For this reason, FFP is kinda useless for lower powered scopes (less than 10x), and only really comes in with higher powered stuff up to 22-30x. FFP does indeed look like the dot, line, or mil-strada look like they are getting bigger or smaller when dialing bigger or smaller, but they are staying the exact same size in relation to the object getting magnified. With a SFP optic, the object being magnifed is the only thing being changed while the reticle is staying the same size. Most Mil-dot low powered scopes are SFP because their top end is not that high and you will probably be doing most of your distance measuring at this power anyways.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coal Dragger View Post
    Marines love CLP. Chow, libo, pussy.

    Beyond that everything else is a crap shoot.

  10. #90
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    Don't let FFP play a mind trick. Yes - the reticle / dot is growing. So what? How it looks visually is irrelevant - it is the measurement - that is the only thing that counts. It counts because it can be fractionalized and therefore - utilized.



    Good luck

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