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Thread: Favorite 100 yd non-magnified zero target?

  1. #111
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    I like shoot-N-C targets as they do well for those seasoned eyes.

    Other than that, I like the large outer edge to be dark as it is easy to pick up but I prefer a white background over a dark background as I can see impacts better on the white color, even under magnification. I also like 12, 3, 6 and 9 hash lines for EoTech or magnified reticle confirmation, provided the target is level and/or plumb.

    Of course I have my .02 on the side bar, but I don't want to get deleted.

    This is a simple example of a target that I made and use which is easily printed on 8.8 x 11 paper. I understand all of my POI / POA for various distances given my zero so simple works for me. I also have target packs that have over 500 targets that I often use.


  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    No, it would be both a zero and a second intersection. In shooting the second intersection, or final intersection, is called a "zero".

    Which, by the way, brings us to why I prefer the 100 yard zero, since the thread is good and hijacked and I already got what I wanted...

    with a 100 yard zero you get initial intersection, maximum ordinate, and zero all ~at the same point. Very useful, and produces less overall deviation between POA/POI all the way out past 200 yards than the 200 yard zero (or 40 yard initial intersection).
    Seems to me the "zero" is the range at which you adjust your sights so POA and POI intersect. Any other points where POA and POI intersect are irrelevant to that zero even though there will be another one if your zero is close enough.

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by trinydex View Post
    i have heard (read) claims that people can make minute of angle shots with iron sights at 100... am i naive to believe that? i always feel like my groups are "bad" when they're 4" at 100 yards and that a 1" group is the goal.
    We are getting a little off topic now, but here are my thoughts.

    I have been around some pretty skilled marksman and seen some amazing shooting. 1" and 100 yards with irons consistently would be very impressive. If what the person claims is true, then it is probably a match barrel with optimized ammo off of a rest.

    Someone shooting a fighting rifle with ammo like 55 gr American Eagle or M193 and getting consistent 1" groups is not happening.

    I have seen a 1.75" 5 round group at 200 yards from a 11.5" Colt, 4 MOA Aimpoint, and 55 grain American Eagle. The shooter is very skilled. But as has been covered elsewhere, one 5 round group does not really tell us much. The average of five 5 round groups would be closer to a meaningful test.

    Additionally, in my experience most people exaggerate their accuracy achievements. In my opinion, if you are consistently shooting 4" 5 round groups with iron sights monopod of a mag in the prone with a fighting gun, then you are doing fine. What your really need to get better is a red dot.
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  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff_M View Post
    We are getting a little off topic now, but here are my thoughts.

    I have been around some pretty skilled marksman and seen some amazing shooting. 1" and 100 yards with irons consistently would be very impressive. If what the person claims is true, then it is probably a match barrel with optimized ammo off of a rest.

    Someone shooting a fighting rifle with ammo like 55 gr American Eagle or M193 and getting consistent 1" groups is not happening.

    I have seen a 1.75" 5 round group at 200 yards from a 11.5" Colt, 4 MOA Aimpoint, and 55 grain American Eagle. The shooter is very skilled. But as has been covered elsewhere, one 5 round group does not really tell us much. The average of five 5 round groups would be closer to a meaningful test.

    Additionally, in my experience most people exaggerate their accuracy achievements. In my opinion, if you are consistently shooting 4" 5 round groups with iron sights monopod of a mag in the prone with a fighting gun, then you are doing fine. What your really need to get better is a red dot.
    Agree on all counts, and my experience personally and in observing and supervising others matches this exactly.

    Unfortunately these ridiculous claims of fantasyland accuracy on the internut have a negative affect on new shooters as well. They go out, they spend the time shooting groups for zero o just for accuracy or for fun, and they get a 4-5" group at 100 yards with irons, or even an RDS, and they think they are all ****ed up, when in fact they are chasing a false ideal (kind of like women that want to look like models). This is what leads to nonsense like magnifiers, fancy triggers, etc. They don't realize that they are already damn near where they should be, or at the mechanical limits of the equipment and ammo, and what they really need is more trigger time to squeeze out the last little bit.

    Also, as my experience last week with the linked targets showed me, I am more accurate with the RDS than with irons. I was shooting a BCM midlength with Troy rear sight and fixed FSB, and a Centurion 10.5" with Aimpoint H-1, and my groups were half as large with the RDS on the shorty as they were with the irons with the 16". and when I moved to zero the irons with the 10.5" I got the same group sizes as with the 16" with irons.

  5. #115
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    http://bisonballistics.com/system/do...pdf?1301537783

    200 yard bullseye target reduced for 100 yards. Iron sight friendly, I wouldn't bother with anything else on these as there are much better options for RDSs.

    I like these for irons over other options simply because they work and are simple. They don't have grid lines, but with the astounding combinations of sights and mounting positions it would be a pain to make it work. The big black blob works with a front sight focus, something many target creators seem to forget about.
    Jack Leuba
    Director, Military and Government Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  6. #116
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    Precision potential of defensive rifles?
    It depends.
    From non-benchrested positions, with a decent chrome lined barrel, with economical training ammo, with an RDs, expect 3 to 4 MOA groups.

    With precision-oriented barrel and ammo one can get MOA performance regardless of optic at close to mid-range as long as the targets support the ability to hold the dot at the same POA consistently. But at that point, what's the point?
    Jack Leuba
    Director, Military and Government Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    front sight focus, something many target creators seem to forget about.
    This has been exactly my experience and is what led me to initially start this thread. Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

    ETA: I can always add gridlines if I find I need them.
    Last edited by rob_s; 08-01-11 at 07:17.

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    This has been exactly my experience and is what led me to initially start this thread. Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

    ETA: I can always add gridlines if I find I need them.
    For all those people that scream bloody murder about "mastering" irons, there sure seems to be a lack of zeroing targets to support their "mastery". They must all have access to 300+ meter ranges and the supporting targetry.
    Jack Leuba
    Director, Military and Government Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  9. #119
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    Plenty of suitable targets available.
    http://www.pistoleer.com/targets/highpower/

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    For all those people that scream bloody murder about "mastering" irons, there sure seems to be a lack of zeroing targets to support their "mastery". They must all have access to 300+ meter ranges and the supporting targetry.
    Last edited by MistWolf; 08-01-11 at 18:38.
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