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Thread: Favorite 100 yd non-magnified zero target?

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    Because a zero is not the same thing as an initial intersection.
    Occasionally, something stated is so inane... So vapid... So asinine... So bereft of reason... that it demands comment.

    What, precisely, is your 100 yard zero other than an 'initial intersection'?

    Loosen your visor.
    Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. ... The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences.

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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by User_name View Post
    Occasionally, something stated is so inane... So vapid... So asinine... So bereft of reason... that it demands comment.

    What, precisely, is your 100 yard zero other than an 'initial intersection'?

    Loosen your visor.
    it's a zero. there is no second point of incidence as the POI does not rise above LOS with a 100 yard zero.

    many people prefer the 100 yard zero as you never have to hold-under at any distance like you would with all other zeroes...
    never push a wrench...

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    On the subject of targets, I gave the linked targets a try yesterday. My experiences...

    First, due to a lightning alarm and a time crunch issue I only got a chance to achieve POA=POI at 50 yards. Because of this I used the targets in the linked thread exactly as intended.

    I used the 25 yard target and using the center of the dark circle as POA I adjusted until I got POI at the grey circle. I then used the 50 yard target to get POA=POI at 50 yards.

    I was shooting two guns. One was a stock BCM midlength with Troy folding rear sight, the other was a Centurion Arms 10.5" upper with Aimpoint H-1. I found that the targets worked relatively well as-intended with the RDS, but definitely were unworkable for irons. Part of this is undoubtedly my shitty eyesight as well as the heat of the day causing sweat to run down into my eyes, etc. With the RDS, having the grid and the clicks was GREAT and worked perfectly. Shot 5 rounds, counted the squares, moved it the correct number of clicks, and shot another 5 rounds to verify. Dead nuts. With the irons the black outer circle just didn't provide enough contrast. It might work pretty good if the circle was larger or if the entire target outside the circle was black to give more contrast.

    I think I'm going to pick up a few of these and stick them on a gridded white page. I think the combination will work well enough. I have used these for magnified optics before. I may try them again for non-magnified shooting. At distance they should provide enough of a contrast on a white or light brown background and the large square of the overall target should work at 100 yards I'd think.
    did you give my construction paper with 2" blue or black painters tape a try?
    never push a wrench...

  4. #84
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    this is a target that i made up years ago for shooting red dots or magnified optics at. for precision rifle, you have 5 1" dots to aim at. the big black square provides a decent aiming point for unmagnified optics. also works well for handguns.


    download the word document below - the pic above is not the full size version.

  5. #85
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    Quick question... Are ya'll running the same zero on your BUIS as the red dot?

    I currently have my irons @ 25m and the Aimpoint @ 50y. If I go to a 100y zero I think it would be best to have them the same.

    .
    -David

    AR-15 owner/shooter since 1998

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMMOTECH View Post
    Quick question... Are ya'll running the same zero on your BUIS as the red dot?

    I currently have my irons @ 25m and the Aimpoint @ 50y. If I go to a 100y zero I think it would be best to have them the same.

    .
    Yes, same for both. I go by the theory of trying to be as consistent as possible with everything...guns, gear, fundamentals, ect...that way if you have to switch to your "backup" at least you won't have to think about how to use it.

    The only exception I can (maybe) see is if you have a precision setup with the optic set at a 200 yd zero with the backup irons at 100 yds...again, its irons, so I want it to be consistent with the irons on my fighting rifle.

  7. #87
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    Several months ago I had pretty much this same discussion of what constitutes a zero. Think he did a better job of keeping it more towards technicality and not opinion this time around (which was what I was looking for) but it still seems to not be a rule or the right definition still. That being said I agree and respect most of what Rob_S says so I don't see any reason to not be open to what he says, just this one seems a bit weak.

    On topic. I often cheat and go to an automated range to zero at 100yard for initial sighting, computer tells how far off shots are and all that although I see some room for error in doing this so its good to have a double check later.

    When it comes to type of zero I was sold here on the 100 yard. 0 to -2.5"ish out to 200yards seems like a good idea to me.

    As for people sighting in at 25 and 50 yards and having wild and crazy second intersections. I wonder if this is sometimes not the work of it just being hard to accomplish at those ranges, rather that some people are just lazy as hell and will call "close enough" where the poi is just to far off so they end up watching their second intersections fall to pieces. Another possibility is it can often be favored but "lower quality" shooters who don't have the accuracy to sight in that well to begin with.
    Luck is awesome. The more proficient you are at what you do the luckier you seem to be.

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  8. #88
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    Here's an article from P. Howe on his 100 yard battlefield zero that also shows how he uses his CSAT target to obtain this zero. As you'll see he uses a "bullseye" shooting method of POA/POI at 100 yards, in other words, using a 6x6 box target, he uses the base of the box as the POA, to land the hits dead center in the box.

    If I remember right during his carbine course, we actually sighted in at 7 yards first, shooting around 2.4" low, then we zeroed at 100 yards from the prone. Using RDS, he uses the top of the red dot as he would the top of the front sight.

    http://www.combatshootingandtactics....llpictures.pdf

    Edit: RE: those contemplating just using a 50 yard "zero": before the class I knew that he liked a 100 yard zero and I zeroed 1.5" low at 25 yards from the bench. At 7 yards, standing up, I was shooting at pretty much the expected POI..but at 100 yards, and shooting from the prone, just as expected, I had to implement a not insignificant amount of dialing in...so if you want to hit at 100, or 200, or whatever..you gotta zero at those ranges, and by using your expected shooting position under field conditions, not just from the bench, unless all you plan on doing is bench shooting only. "Zeroing" at 50 yards from the bench, just gives you a 50 yard zero, from the bench, and that's all.
    Last edited by DacoRoman; 07-27-11 at 22:35.
    Formerly known as "Son of Vlad Tepes"

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    No, it would be both a zero and a second intersection. In shooting the second intersection, or final intersection, is called a "zero".

    Which, by the way, brings us to why I prefer the 100 yard zero, since the thread is good and hijacked and I already got what I wanted...

    with a 100 yard zero you get initial intersection, maximum ordinate, and zero all ~at the same point. Very useful, and produces less overall deviation between POA/POI all the way out past 200 yards than the 200 yard zero (or 40 yard initial intersection).

    This makes sense to me, and I'm purt-near retarded.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axcelea View Post
    Several months ago I had pretty much this same discussion of what constitutes a zero. Think he did a better job of keeping it more towards technicality and not opinion this time around (which was what I was looking for) but it still seems to not be a rule or the right definition still. That being said I agree and respect most of what Rob_S says so I don't see any reason to not be open to what he says, just this one seems a bit weak.

    On topic. I often cheat and go to an automated range to zero at 100yard for initial sighting, computer tells how far off shots are and all that although I see some room for error in doing this so its good to have a double check later.

    When it comes to type of zero I was sold here on the 100 yard. 0 to -2.5"ish out to 200yards seems like a good idea to me.

    As for people sighting in at 25 and 50 yards and having wild and crazy second intersections. I wonder if this is sometimes not the work of it just being hard to accomplish at those ranges, rather that some people are just lazy as hell and will call "close enough" where the poi is just to far off so they end up watching their second intersections fall to pieces. Another possibility is it can often be favored but "lower quality" shooters who don't have the accuracy to sight in that well to begin with.
    What a bunch of bullshit. I use 50 either because I'm lazy or because I suck?

    I've printed out ballistic charts for every cartridge I shoot and 50 yards works for me with all of them.

    5.45x39
    5.56x45
    7.62x39
    7.62x51
    7mm mag
    .300 win mag
    12 gauge rifled sabot slug

    I put thought into this and it worked out this way. Works for what I do.
    Just because someone doesn't do things the way you or rob s does it doesn't mean they suck.

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