.308 good enough?

[chubbs88]

for some reason im having trouble with my search feature. so im looking into getting a bolt rifle capable of hitting targets out to 800 yards with effective stopping power. my main question is will a .308 do the job or should i look into something more powerful. also if you guys know of any good online reading material online that can help me out please please post as i feel this question probably gets asked alot.

[mkmckinley]

7.62X51 is the standard medium caliber round used in sniper rifles in most of the NATO world. It is very capable of hitting a man-sized target out to 800m and will do enough damage to incapacitate or kill depending on shot placement. The question is are you? What is your level of training? I don't mean that to sound condescending. There are a lot of factors that go into making first round hits at 800m such as wind reading and range estimation. The limiting factor is your ability to hit a vital part of the target in varying conditions.

Do you reload or will you be buying factory match ammo? You can make it easier on yourself by going with something like .260 Rem but it's harder and more expensive to buy factory ammo and there aren't many factory rifles chambered in that caliber. .300 WM is popular but will increase your training, equipment, and maintenance costs quite a bit. If you're serious about long range shooting and not just ****ing around you have to factor in training costs, ammo costs, barrel life etc.

I wouldn't worry too much about "stopping power" or terminal ballistics and concentrate more on being able to reliable hit the target. Shot placement is more important than the terminal ballistics of the cartridge, within reason. I would say .308 is a good choice if you don't reload and want a specific factory rifle that's chambered in .308. If you want to reload or don't mind spending a little more on ammo and can find a rifle for it .260 Rem is a great choice. Demigod LLC has some published articles online that are very worthwhile. There are plenty of books on long range shooting and FM 23-10 can be downloaded for free.

[chubbs88]

good points mkmckinley, my main concern was if this caliber was capable of what i was wanting to learn to do. im not really into the whole reloading thing so thats not really an option for me i guess. thanks for your input. i have no real training at longer ranges as i didnt have access to ranges longer than 200 yards recently but now that i do a buddy and i are planning on going out their quite often so i can learn and he can practice at 600 or so yards. im going to slowly up my ranges from 200 until im comfortable shooting out to the longer ranges. this goal of mine is not for anything particular other than i find it very fun trying to hit targets at ranges that take more than pointing and shooting. so again thank you and keep the good advice coming. i also intend on taking some long range marksman classes once i purchase the right setup for myself

[orkan]

If learning is what you are after, then there is no better long range teacher than the 308win at distance. To practice fundamentals and get trigger time in, a 22LR will suffice.

308 is affordable, doesn't recoil much, and isn't difficult to obtain accurate ammo.

It would be a good starter choice. Basically, if you are asking the question you asked, then you need a 308. After learning it to 1000yds, you won't have too many questions.

[mkmckinley]

Sounds like you're on the right track. As far as training there's not necessarily a need to "work up" to 800. If you understand the fundamentals and know what calculations you need to make then soothing at 80 with a good partner will teach you wind calls and force you to dial or hold in order to get hits. My normal training routine on a KD range is zero/group at 100m then shoot at 600m and 800m practicing wind calls and making corrections with a spotter. The 100m shooting is a chance to practice fundamentals a little bit and confirm zero. The longer ranges are more for practicing wind calls and using holdovers. On the occasions I can shoot unknown distance steel I try to train using a 12" drill and practice range estimation.

It's an enjoyable side of shooting to get into but it can get expensive quick. You start with a Remington 700 and a Leupold and end up wanting an AI, S&B, LRF, Spotting scope, Kestrel, PDA, reloading setup etc. You can get a hell of a lot of good shooting and training with just the Rem 700 and a logbook. You have to decide when your equipment is actually holding you back and what you're willing to spend to take it up a notch. There are days that are just frustrating too. One of the pitfalls you may run into is trying to shoot at 800-1000m and not be able to make hits that you know you should. Lord knows I've had days when I wanted to chuck my kit into the stream and drive home. Sometimes you have to just relax and accept that you'll have off days.

Don't underestimate the value of instruction from better-trained people. Everything I know about shooting long guns I learned from someone with more experience.

[chubbs88]

thank you for the insight. when you refer to a remington 700 and a logbook do these mentioned log books come with the formulas in them or is it something more tailored specifically to each round as they each have their own characteristics that i need to find based on the round itself? or are they pretty much all the same (formula wise) you just plug in the variables?


also, my first thought was to buy a mid line remington 700 model and keep the extra cash for more trigger time as apparently all the actions are the same in the 700, and later on down the road i can upgrade specific parts to tailor to my needs better, is this a better option then saying spending the big bucks first on a super high quality rifle?

[mkmckinley]

The logbook can be a pre-made one or just something you come up with yourself. It's just something for you to be able to record DOPE so you know what you bullet will do in different conditions. The pre-made ones usually have formulas. The one I was issued awhile back had a bunch of info on milling and had basic ballistic tables for 5.56, 7.62, .300 WM, .338 Lapua and .50 BMG. I can't remember who made it but I think triad tactical had them. The 21st century version is Horus's ATrag software which works really well.

I wouldn't go down and drop the coin on a GAP just yet. If you're on a budget you can keep your eyes out for a used setup on someplace like sniperhide.com or look for a good deal on a factory rifle setup the way you want. If I were in your shoes I would research an FN SPR and Rem 700 5R. The FN SPR A1 can be had for around $1500 and is a hell of a long gun. I've also heard Savage makes an accurate rifle but don't have any experience with them myself.

[prdubi]

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=85870

308 was more than fine... I used ultra cheap prvi partizan up to 1200 yards.

I bet if I was not a cheap bastard and used the Hornady or busted out my Federal Gold Medal match, it would reach out to 1500 just fine....

I did not hit 1200 on the first try but I was getting there...it was in the general area of 3x3 target but at 1200 yards, was really playing with the wind.

[chubbs88]

also if you know of any good reading material i can pick up at barnes and noble would be great, theres a shat ton on long range shooting but doesnt mean they are all good.

[prdubi]

I recommend Borders for the moment being they are closing out and a ton of their stuff is on sale at 20-30 percent off.

For magazines it is 40 percent off and there is a ton of reloading and precision shooting magazines there.