Training????

[longball]

Did anyone else notice this guy is shooting steel at 10yds with no eye pro?

Brilliant

Ya, these videos are just full of win.

[akfortynine]

Maybe they should get together with the guy who trains people how to walk their shots up off the ground into the centerline of a target. Then again, that guy used a holster so i guess the training isn't compatable.

[Jay Cunningham]

I watched the videos.

Not wearing eyepro is a very bad example, especially shooting steel so close.

Some of the things that he said made sense in a certain context. If somebody came to me and said, "I've never fired a gun before, but I need you to teach me how to defend myself and you only have four hours to do it" I'd teach them point-shooting. Or whatever it's called.

[rob_s]

Some of the things that he said made sense in a certain context. If somebody came to me and said, "I've never fired a gun before, but I need you to teach me how to defend myself and you only have four hours to do it" I'd teach them point-shooting. Or whatever it's called.

I think I'd probably teach them to get it out of the holster first... oh, wait.... holster?

But beyond that I agree with you. Have almost started a thread on that topic a few times.

[Jay Cunningham]

Most people who are untrained and own pistols don't have holsters. A lot of them are kept in nightstands or in cars (or purses).

It's easy to overlay our template onto the rest of the world - easier than dealing with reality. It would be nice if everybody who owned a handgun also had a kydex holster and emergency reload pouch and wore Merrels and Rudy Project sunglasses...

I guess it's just easy to do the "hey look they're not doing exactly what everyone else is doing let's make fun of them on an internet gun forum echo chamber" thing.

I don't teach or endorse their technique generally... but then again I only saw three-and-a-half minutes of their curriculum. I do in fact teach point shooting with taped over sights. I also know from FoF that oftentimes sights aren't used, and I know from ECQC how close the gunfight might wind up.

[rob_s]

Of course, everyone has some threshold at which they aren't going to use sights. Even the most strict "always use your sights" school of thought is going to have to deal with some kind of retention shooting. I suppose it's debatable at what distance beyond that the threshold is crossed and sights come into play, with everyone having a different threshold.

One of the few things of value I got out of a certain pistol class a few years ago was they had us actually not use our sights and work backwards to see at what distance we stopped getting the kinds of hits we wanted. It's different for everyone and dependent on a lot of different variables.

They come across as baffoons in the video, regardless of whether it's three minutes or 30, and it's a video they put out voluntarily, not some hidden camera thing they weren't aware of. This is how they chose to market themselves, shooting bottles on the ground, waving muzzles around, sweeping themselves, not wearing eye protection, AND espousing what they have to know is going to be a controversial idea. That combination alone is enough to indicate to me someone to stay well away from.

[Jay Cunningham]

They come across as baffoons in the video, regardless of whether it's three minutes or 30, and it's a video they put out voluntarily, not some hidden camera thing they weren't aware of. This is how they chose to market themselves, shooting bottles on the ground, waving muzzles around, sweeping themselves, not wearing eye protection, AND espousing what they have to know is going to be a controversial idea. That combination alone is enough to indicate to me someone to stay well away from.

Sure, and I agree. But sometimes the whole, "Hey look at these guys, they're ****ed up, am i rite??" thing gets stale. Hell I was guilty of it a few years back, too.

[rob_s]

Sure, and I agree. But sometimes the whole, "Hey look at these guys, they're ****ed up, am i rite??" thing gets stale. Hell I was guilty of it a few years back, too.

Think of them as potential teaching points.

I print out various images, and have even had people crowd around my phone to watch videos, to make a point here and there. "This is a good example of why we should/shouldn't do xyz". Works pretty well usually.

it's easy to dismiss it as people being elitist, or dogpiling, or whatever, but I think that's an overly dismissive and often intentionally-contrarian view. There can be value in looking at what not to do as much as looking at what to do, and discussing things either way.

and it goes on everywhere. dogpiling the dogpilers to feel more elite than the elitists isn't wholly uncommon.

[Jay Cunningham]

Of course, everyone has some threshold at which they aren't going to use sights. Even the most strict "always use your sights" school of thought is going to have to deal with some kind of retention shooting. I suppose it's debatable at what distance beyond that the threshold is crossed and sights come into play, with everyone having a different threshold.

One of the few things of value I got out of a certain pistol class a few years ago was they had us actually not use our sights and work backwards to see at what distance we stopped getting the kinds of hits we wanted. It's different for everyone and dependent on a lot of different variables.

In general, I've found "point shooting" to fall apart around 10 yards for handguns. Remember you need to know some kind of technique if you don't have night sights and you're fighting in low light. Applies to iron-sighted carbines as well. Vickers teaches a very effective point-shooting technique for the AR-15.

[Jay Cunningham]

Think of them as potential teaching points.

I print out various images, and have even had people crowd around my phone to watch videos, to make a point here and there. "This is a good example of why we should/shouldn't do xyz". Works pretty well usually.

it's easy to dismiss it as people being elitist, or dogpiling, or whatever, but I think that's an overly dismissive and often intentionally-contrarian view. There can be value in looking at what not to do as much as looking at what to do, and discussing things either way.

and it goes on everywhere. dogpiling the dogpilers to feel more elite than the elitists isn't wholly uncommon.

Good triangulation!



I won't do it with images, but several-minute long video clips are fair game.