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Thread: Can I get a no BS answer? Defensive Carbine accuracy?

  1. #91
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    I am with IG. You do not need an optic now to shoot your carbine or use it to defend your life.

    I would rather get a basic carbine with iron sights and start shooting it now, than have to wait until I can afford an optic. However, the optic is a good item to plan to get.

    Good shooting out to 600 yards or more can be done with iron sights. I see no reason why an RDS couldn't do the same
    Last edited by MistWolf; 08-06-11 at 15:57.
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  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    Ed L.,

    I hike out in the desert and do some spelunking in the mountains and foothills. When I do that I drag my SBR along. In some of those areas it it quite possible to encounter illegals/ smugglers.

    It's quite possible that they could be armed (has happened) and may take shots at you. In which case........200-300 yards could happen.

    Plus I like to maintain my long distance shooting skills.
    Good point, IG. For the most part I live in about a 100 yard world.
    Last edited by Ed L.; 08-06-11 at 17:29.

  3. #93
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    I'm not sure if its been stated, I'll admit to not reading the whole thread, but I would say that any properly built AR with a barrel on it that's not shot out will provide good enough mechanical accuracy to get the job done. It falls on the shooter, and their skills to bring that capability to bear in a fast and accurate manner. Are all the doodads needed? no, do they help? sure, at times, but training and mindset are what really matters.

    Just my humble opinion.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #94
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    So much for OPs no BS answer.

  5. #95
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    the single biggest positive factor the RD system brings to the M4 is the low light/dark shooting conditions...fast acquisition of the dot onto the target...provided the target is 'visible'.

    my preference, also, is the standard irons with a good tac flashlite on the muzzle of the carbine. i use it when in pursuit of varmints here on my property at nite and it provides adequate light and sight picture on the local vermin out to 25-30 yds/meters. i certainly am not 'bad mouthing' RD systems, either; many like and use them quite successfully.

    combat, LE applications, sporting and HD/SD are all different in the "What if?" scenario and all have different solutions.

    IMO, the military RD/holo systems are probably the best way to go, but i, personally, cannot justify the $$$$, if a person wishes to go to an 'optical' system.

    the use of a sling has been mentioned as being very important, too; it will provide much needed stability when aiming.
    it is better to remain silent and be thought as being a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt...

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by morbidbattlecry View Post
    So much for OPs no BS answer.

    There have been a few beacons of light but only a few.

    It is the internet afterall.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Pincus View Post
    R Moran,

    That's because it is impossible to know... Precisely... The target will dictate that at the moment. Could be a 3" circle inthe face, could be a 10x12 rectangle on a torso, etc, etc.... All you can do is train for a reasonable range of plausible target sizes.

    Try this (somewhat old)clip to get a better understanding of the concept of the Balance of Speed & Precision. Anyone who tells you to shoot at X" target is going to be shooting at an average or, worse, defaulting to the smallest plausible target, which means you'll often be training to shoot slower that you might be able to in an actual fight.

    Here's an article version of the BoS&P also...

    Lastly, here is an actual demo of the concept in action at a defensive pistol match, showing the different pacing possible at different sizes of plausible defense targets at the same distance: BoS&P Demo

    -RJP
    Thanks, I already have an understanding of balancing speed and accuracy.
    An awful lot of time to say...

    " as accurate as you need to be, as fast as you need to be"

    That is nothing more then what every instructor I mentioned, and a whole lot of others not mentioned, and plenty of "tier one" types, all state.

    Yet, they all seem to be able to give a reasonable goal for accuracy, many based on real world combat.

    I would much rather default to the "smallest plausible target", then fall back on "good enough", or "close enough".

    Its much easier to shoot faster, then to shoot more accurate.

    Who goes into the gym, and just push steel around? without noting how much he is lifting or how many reps? Not many, especially if they expect to make improvements.


    Sorry, I just don't buy into the "way of no way" type of arguments.

    Bob
    " Some people say..any tactic that works is a good tactic,...I say, anything can work once" former ABQ swat Sgt.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by prodgi View Post
    There have been a few beacons of light but only a few.

    It is the internet afterall.
    Well, I hope I was one of them

    What it comes down to, is deciding what your mission is, and then equipping and training for it.

    Do you need an Aimpoint for home defense....not really. Does it make things easier for you, in a multitude of different environments and situations?, yes.

    If your waiting to hit some magical number, either in speed or group size, before you get an Aimpoint, you'd be wrong. There is no phase line you need to cross, before you can get an Aimpoint.
    Look at what every one that advocates an Aimpoint, has to say. Look at the situations that we indicate they excel in, and why we like them. Do these seem like a reasonable situation you may use your carbine in? A benefit you would like to see?
    If so, get one, if not don't.

    But also, don't think, that shooting fast with irons, standing on the flat range, with blue skies and 75 degree weather, means an Aimpoint is of no value.

    Bob
    " Some people say..any tactic that works is a good tactic,...I say, anything can work once" former ABQ swat Sgt.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by morbidbattlecry View Post
    So much for OPs no BS answer.
    Quote Originally Posted by prodgi View Post
    There have been a few beacons of light but only a few.

    It is the internet afterall.
    You know, the OP asked a completely bullshit question. Defensive Carbine mechanical accuracy with an optic or without doesn't matter one ****ing bit.

    Because there is huge difference between accuracy and being able to shoot someone in the face under poor conditions.

    And having several pissants sharpshooting the responses without posting anything of substance doesn't help, either.

    If you ask a completely bullshit question, you cannot expect an no-bullshit answer.

  10. #100
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by 120mm View Post
    You know, the OP asked a completely bullshit question. Defensive Carbine mechanical accuracy with an optic or without doesn't matter one ****ing bit.

    Because there is huge difference between accuracy and being able to shoot someone in the face under poor conditions.

    And having several pissants sharpshooting the responses without posting anything of substance doesn't help, either.

    If you ask a completely bullshit question, you cannot expect an no-bullshit answer.
    Well said...i was thinking the same thing

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