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Thread: Can I get a no BS answer? Defensive Carbine accuracy?

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4x4twenty6 View Post
    If you want an optic, get one.

    Will it make you a better, more accurate shooter? probably not.

    I liked my Eotech, i think it was a great tool.

    When it came down to shooting cqb with no rear sight, no eotech, just front sight on target, that worked just fine.

    I am referring to my weapon, a fixed A2 front sight on an 11" barrel m4.

    As long as you take into account point of aim point of impact is going to be different at very close range, say around 20 feet or closer just as an example; where the front sight post is on the target, the round will hit a few inches lower. If you were trying to attempt a close range head shot and you put that sight post on their forehead you are probably going to hit in the nose area. Take in to account the distance from top of the sight post to the barrel.

    There are a lot of skilled guys on here that know this but just in case someone didnt consider this.

    If I missed that someone already brought this up I apologize.
    That is the same issue with any optic at close range as well with an AR. Its due to the sighting plane being 2.7 inches higher than the bore. When you use your Eotech you still need to account for the off set at close range just like you do with irons.

    As for Robs long range comments. Stuff happens and you need to be prepared for it. back in the 1980's a killer was sniping people in the woods with a hunting rifle. The bad guy usually determines the range at which you will engage him when you are the defender. CBQ skills are essential but they are not the only skills you should practice. Same with handgun. I know instructors who say you should only practice at 7 yards because most pistol fights happen there or closer but I also know of a Trooper who killed someone shooting at him 35 yards away with his pistol. If you train for the norm you will be un-prepared for the extreme when it happens.

    Pat
    Last edited by Alaskapopo; 08-05-11 at 22:47.
    Serving as a LEO since 1999.
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  2. #82
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    Alaska: Right on with the Eotech and drop similar to front sight post.
    The Eotech being an electronic device, you shouldnt completely rely on it functioning. Murphy's Law. I know this from experience, those batteries tend to go out when you need it most.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4x4twenty6 View Post
    The Eotech being an electronic device, you shouldnt completely rely on it functioning. Murphy's Law. I know this from experience, those batteries tend to go out when you need it most.
    Battery box problems and short battery life on Eotechs are known issues. Try an Aimpoint.

    Quote Originally Posted by YWHIC View Post
    I still thing the RDS for quick and accurate out to 250 is do-able..
    With no more than 1.6 inch off LOS between 15 and 230 yards, using TAP 2 or BH Mk 262 Mod 1, an Aimpoint is GTG for longer shots. ["The external ballistics of the two loads are virtually indistinguishable out to 250 yards. The conservative ballistic coefficients used for the graph and tables below were derived by testing at 200 yards by Rick Jamison." Chart and quote posted by Molon.]

    Last edited by Submariner; 08-06-11 at 08:12. Reason: post second quote
    "The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts." Justice Robert Jackson, WV St. Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943)

    "I don’t care how many pull ups and sit ups you can do. I care that you can move yourself across the ground with a fighting load and engage the enemy." Max Velocity

  4. #84
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    Ed L.,

    I hike out in the desert and do some spelunking in the mountains and foothills. When I do that I drag my SBR along. In some of those areas it it quite possible to encounter illegals/ smugglers.

    It's quite possible that they could be armed (has happened) and may take shots at you. In which case........200-300 yards could happen.

    Plus I like to maintain my long distance shooting skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed L. View Post
    I think thre reason Rob & others emphasize CQB shooting is that it is the closest thing to some type of home defense use of a longarm.

    Exactly what type of a situation would a civilian short of some type of SHTF be shooting at someone at 200-300 yards away?



    Okay, you may have a point there.



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  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by An Undocumented Worker View Post
    If I recall correctly you need to be able to shoot 3 moa consistently to qualify marksman on an Army Qualification Test.

    That being done with old well worn rifles with iron sights.
    I could shoot 30MOA and qualify Marksman just by saving all the long range opportunity rounds to re-fire my misses. If you can shoot 8MOA, you can qualify Expert. 6 will get you 40 out of 40.
    Last edited by Heavy Metal; 08-06-11 at 12:12.
    My brother saw Deliverance and bought a Bow. I saw Deliverance and bought an AR-15.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surf View Post
    The crap you read in threads like these makes me either want to laugh or cry.
    At least we don't have folks posting that the "click" from turning on your Aimpoint will alert an intruder.
    "The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts." Justice Robert Jackson, WV St. Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943)

    "I don’t care how many pull ups and sit ups you can do. I care that you can move yourself across the ground with a fighting load and engage the enemy." Max Velocity

  7. #87
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    Submariner: i never new that about the eotechs and thanks for the heads up. greatly appreciated.

  8. #88
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    The crap you read in threads like these makes me either want to laugh or cry.

  9. #89
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    surf: If someone got something wrong help us out by giving us the correct answer. Not meaningless criticism.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by prodgi View Post
    My defensive rifle has, as of right now, fixed sights. Before I go spending money on an optic of any kind I want to know that I actually "need" one. I understand that an optic is likely to improve accuracy. That's not a topic I care to get into.

    So from a fixed sight defensive Carbine what MOA should I be happy with?

    Not what 20" NM gun can do but what is a realistic goal for Carbine.

    I like to shoot/stock XM193 if that helps.



    Thanks.

    That's the exact question I asked when I first got into ARs this year.


    I know I'm as accurate as the gun, but I usually get 3-5" groups at 100, prone, monopod on the mag.

    Bone stock Colt 6920 with 62 grain PMC XTAC.

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