Learning irons before optics; must we?

[carbinero]

Great point. If you don't have to worry about target acquisition, you can focus on learning breathing, trigger control, etc. Then, add back in the sighting. AND, if the new shooter is enthused, he/she is much more likely to continue.

[oodalooper]

I hear the argument that irons don't run out of batteries and rarely ever fail. These are the reasons given for not running optics. For me, I'm cheap. I'd rather buy more things that go bang.

One day I will buy a sweet acog knockoff that belongs on airsoft for the Larue I'm saving my pennies for, lol. (Kidding, I would NEVER disgrace that rifle!)

[ReconSDM]

All too often I see people(to include Soldiers), want to throw an optic on their weapon to "make them more accurate". Consistently performing perfect fundamentals makes you accurate. If you don't understand the fundamentals of marksmanship, then adding more bells and whistles to your weapon will probably just magnify any errors, especially magnified optics since there are so many things that go into using an optic properly. There is a reason that the Army has students in the Squad Designated Marksman course shoot for a week with irons from 100y-600y before ever throwing on the ACOG. And if you don't pass irons you go home. Back in 06, 14 of 31 went home after week one.

KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid. Master the basics, or atleast the level of accuracy you desire, before throwing on an optic.

[Alaskapopo]

All too often I see people(to include Soldiers), want to throw an optic on their weapon to "make them more accurate". Consistently performing perfect fundamentals makes you accurate. If you don't understand the fundamentals of marksmanship, then adding more bells and whistles to your weapon will probably just magnify any errors, especially magnified optics since there are so many things that go into using an optic properly. There is a reason that the Army has students in the Squad Designated Marksman course shoot for a week with irons from 100y-600y before ever throwing on the ACOG. And if you don't pass irons you go home. Back in 06, 14 of 31 went home after week one.

KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid. Master the basics, or atleast the level of accuracy you desire, before throwing on an optic.

I learned on irons but frankly in this day and age making students learn irons before optics is just a waste of time. Your right if shooters don't have a fundamental base they will not shoot well regardless of what they throw on the rifle. However you don't need to learn that base on irons that is an antiquated notion.
Pat

[carbinero]

... adding more bells and whistles to your weapon will probably just magnify any errors, especially magnified optics ....

Using good optics will make you more accurate, all other things being equal. That is why I think the statement quoted here is simply not true. If you can see the target better and faster, how can that be bad?

[Keydet08]

Using good optics will make you more accurate, all other things being equal. That is why I think the statement quoted here is simply not true. If you can see the target better and faster, how can that be bad?

Unless you don't understand your wobble zone in non supported positions, and you snatch the trigger when you think your magnified optic is in the exact center of the target.

[markm]

If you can see the target better and faster, how can that be bad?

One can not see "faster". Light travels way to fast for the human eye to detect that monumentally insignificant difference.

You can see the target better/clearer though.

[carbinero]

Unless you don't understand your wobble zone in non supported positions, and you snatch the trigger when you think your magnified optic is in the exact center of the target.

"All things being equal," including amount of training time, you'd be better on the optic, even if it doesn't make you see faster.

[markm]

"All things being equal," including amount of training time, you'd be better on the optic, even if it doesn't make you see faster.

Depends on the shooting... I mean... there are certainly times when a magnified optic is preferred.

When we get out to 4 and 5 hundred yards, I'd be lying to you if I said I didn't like an ACOG or a 1-6.5, etc.

From contact to around 150 or 200 yards... I don't want that crap in the way at all.

[carbinero]

What about Aimpoint vs irons? I know it's impossible to go back in time, but what if you were trained on optics instead of on irons? How about for average Joe who has limited training time...which way will make him faster and more accurate...sooner?