The best of luck to Dave, where ever he might land.
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Industry Professional/Moderator
The best of luck to Dave, where ever he might land.
Dealer
Yep.Originally Posted by Jim D
C4
Senior Member
removed
Last edited by Gutshot John; 08-19-11 at 22:15.
It is bad policy to fear the resentment of an enemy. -Ethan Allen
Industry Professional/Moderator
Keep the conversation relevant to M4Carbine, bring up topics that you have personal knowledge on, and avoid potentially damaging speculation about good people. Charges were made aganst an individual for a reason, anyone with no charges against them must be considered to be outside the scope of the problem, and should not be discussed in the same breath should implications arise.
I am going back to wipe the ass of this thread.
Any additional posts should take this post as guidance.
Member
Member
Sorry to bring up this old thread, but I have a question which directly relates:
How big is a "big contract" in the shooting sports world? I'm curious as to how it compares to other professional sports specifically.
I'm having a hard time finding this answer anywhere so thanks for any replies.
Senior Member
The money really peaked in shooting sports around 1983 or so. Robbie Leatham made about 1 million in direct sponsorships, prize money and endorsements back then. Prize money is way off now. Now, a really good sponsorship will come with an actual full time job with the main company. I remember dealing with Ernest Langdon when he was the LE sales manager at Beretta. The company will arrange for their gear and ammo sponsorships. They'll get time off to practice and shoot matches, plus their travel expenses. They are "on the clock" wherever they're at.
The next level down will pretty much scavenge multiple sponsorships to cover all their costs. If they're lucky, they still work in the gun industry full time and their employer lets them off enough to hit plenty of matches.
The majority of the folks you see wearing team shirts might get a contract for a couple of guns, clothing, perhaps a small stipend for ammo, and possibly $1,000-5,000 for travel expenses. Those are the lucky ones. The rest might get a gun and shoot for contingency money, based on their performance.
Where they really make their money nowadays is teaching. A 2 day class with 10-12 students might make them five grand or so. Usually a local club will host and pay expenses, in exchange for a free slot or two in the class. Either that or they'll work out some other arrangement that is mutually beneficial.
The rest comes from product endorsements, TV deals if they can get them and training material sales such as DVD's.
I'm sure you were expecting a dollar amount like $50K or more, but that just isn't the reality anymore.
Member
Wow, that's great information. Thank you.
It is surprising to me the amount of money made at the top has gone down, if I'm understanding you right. You would think a growing sport would mean growing prize money and endorsements? Perhaps there is more money in the aggregate but nowadays it is more diluted?
It is also surprising to me there is a level below full-time employment which requires multiple endorsements just to cover costs. Interesting.
Do you have any idea how much guys are making on books, DVD's, and other media?
Senior Member
It depends. Guys like Jerry Miculek and Matt Burkett market their own line and it would depend on overhead costs and sales numbers. Brian Enos hasn't shot competitively in a couple of decades, but he has a very popular book that still sells well and is considered a fundamental title. Others get in a training group and it gets divvied up, like the Pantaeo Productions team.
It's interesting to watch the scramble to the top. Every 3 or 4 years, a new crop of faster, more athletic shooters is pushing at the top guys. I remember the first time I got smoked by Bob Vogel and I'm like "Who is this guy and where did he come from?" Now just a few years later, he's winning everything and everyone knows who he is. Yet there are newer, younger guys that he will be having trouble with in 5-10 years. Not that it will really matter. By then he'll be making more money off training than shooting. It's a natural progression. Yet each year, the field seems to be getting a little more crowded. In their favor though is the idea that you need to spend time under more than one instructor to get the full benefit. People are willing to spend more on training that they used to.
Last edited by glocktogo; 12-31-11 at 00:57.
Senior Member
The world of shooting competitions will never realize the revenue that other pro sports do. The reason? Yes, most of us here enjoy watching a high level competition due to the fact that we understand the skills required and the difficulty. For the general public however (even most casual shooters), watching an IDPA, IPSC, Cowboy, Bullseye (insert other discipline)) match is boring and of little interest. With that said, with no spectator fees coming in, the available cash to pay pro's is very limited. Rob Leatham came on the scene in the early days and when Springfield Armory signed him to a $1M contract at the time, they realized that the shooting sports were starting to grow and would grow exponentially in the coming years. However, that sort of deal will never happen again.
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