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Thread: Ill tell you why people want natl health care...

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rmplstlskn View Post
    .........But after that, it goes downhill, mainly because it IS A MONEY MACHINE! It is all about the billables with as little "face time" as possible to keep up QUANTITY. Not that they don't care, as everyone I know of who deals with patients CARES and wants the best for their patient... But it is a meat market... Plain & simple. Even so bad that they keep rolling in TERMINAL cancer patients, some with days or weeks left, to get additional treatments (big $$$)... It is sad...

    Worse, they treat the SYMPTOMS, not to core of DIS-EASE, which is CELLULAR MALFUNCTION. Dis-ease is a cellular SCREAM... The warning lights our Creator gaves us to tell us something is WRONG... But we cut, burn, radiate and medicate instead of solve the cellular dis-order.
    Damn straight. Hammer-nail-head.
    It's all about the money, and general people's general stupidity. Nobody wants to know why they're sick anymore- just give me a pill so I can FEEL better and go on my merry way. Or we'll just chop it out because you don't really need that useless organ.... Bollocks!

    Anyway- OP, I know exactly what you're talking about, although I don't think I ever had it quite as bad as you describe....

    Back when I was a lot younger I spent at least 5 hours in the ER for a simple broken finger- I waited about 2+ of those in the sitting room before anyone even realized we were there. I did not hear or see any sign of any severe trauma that would explain this, and the hospital did not appear crowded or busy.
    Then when I was taken back to be seen, the damn doctor says the usual "let's see the finger", proceeds to give it a nice big YANK and says 'yep, it's broken'. NO SHIT! They then sent me to the Xray tech (I never saw the doctor again, thank God) after waiting another inordinate amount of time. The only bright spot- those were the best xrays I've ever had taken in my life (guess which finger I broke...).
    Afterwords they stuck a splint on it, and the nurse reffered me to a specialist 2 hours away to get it set/cast (which took a grand total of about 30 min.)- she actually told us not to come back to the hospital to have it taken care of, due to the demonstrated incompetence of certain staff.

    More recently I have had some much more serious health issues ( I was set upon by an evil stomach virus that won't go away, and collapsed a lung multiple times). I won't bore you with all the details but I have since been to MANY different hospitals and doctors, and have gotten varying levels of the same ring-around-the-rosy at all of them.
    Now to be fair, I have met a lot of really nice, skilled, caring people in this profession.
    But then there are the folks like the doctor I mentioned that make you wonder how they even got there in the first place.
    The first time I collapsed a lung and went to the hospital they had to admit me, and of course start an IV. The nurse I got apparently had no idea how to do it- long story short, she botched it so badly she bent the needle, blood was pouring out all over the place as she proceeded to twist it about trying to fix it, I almost passed out, and I swear she stuck it in to far because I still get occasional pain at that point on my hand. Apparently she must have been a graduate of the nursing program at the college I went to. I've never been a big fan of needles, but this was ridiculous-you'd have had to have been there to get the full effect. I'd rather have faced down a horde of jihadists with only a pistol than go back there again.
    "Once we get some iron in our souls, we'll get some iron in our hands..."

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belmont31R View Post
    Understandable, and I realize Im probably not a priority in an ER. I ONLY went there because another doctor told me too...
    One of the major causes of ED over crowding is the growing phenomenon of primary care referrals - i.e. people being sent to the ED by their PCP for problems that used to be handled as an out-patient or directly admitted to the hospital without going through the ED. Now, we get people sent to the ED for CT scans, simple procedures, pre-adission "stabilization" etc. Urgent care facilities are notorious for this, and I especially love it when they promise the patient that certain specialists will meet them in the ED or certain costly tests will be performed.

    Even the jail dumps on us since the nurses have decided that they will not take any drunk blowing over 0.25 and they will not perform any blood draws. That's right, nothing soothes the atmosphere in the ED than a bunch of cops tazzing a DUI who is fighting a blood draw.

    Hence the 'ol saying, "If your Momma don't love ya, and the cops don't want ya, then go to the emergency department."

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanesmith View Post
    The liver function tests that you describe are not in a CBC (complete blood count) which only includes hemoglobin, hematocrit, white blood cell count, platelet count, etc. The tests that you describe are found in a comprehensive metabolic panel (some places call it a Chem12 or chem16 depending on what is included). A CMP is fairly routine for most people presenting to the ED with undifferentiated abdominal pain (medical speak for pain without identified cause).

    Personally, I would not recommend any more tests until you find a primary doctor that you like, who takes the time to listen to your concerns, performs a thorough exam, and recommends tests after explaining their cost/potential risks/benefits. FYI, it is usually very hard to be this thorough in an ED when the shit is hitting the fan.


    I have an APPT with a GI doc on the 24th at 2PM. I already asked about costs, and they do 50% off if you pay at the time of visit. I asked what a general visit would cost and the clerk said 150-500 but with the 50% discout the most Ill pay the first time is 250.

    Im amazed more people do not do cash and carry visits but was also amazed, prior to this, no one wants to see people without a referral or insurance. I told one lady at a specialist clinic I would come with a stack of 100's if she was worried about payment and they still would not see me without insurance. That was just to get a consult not for surgery or anything. Both my wife and I were calling around to every clinic and office in Central Tx.


    Ill try to get a copy of my records from the ER but at the clinic my white blood cell count was 14.6 when it said the normal range was 5-10 (? Might be off a few 1/10ths). Urine test was normal, and Ive had no change in urine outputs. At the hospital my WBC was 8.X. The ER doc said it can fluctuate hour to hour.


    He gave me Bentyl 20MG 15X 3X daily.

  4. #24
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    Also, I'm glad that you were able to work out a payment plan. This can be hard to do in poor communities where many citizens try to cheat their bills.

    My community hospital sees about 25% self-pay. The physician bill for emergency services recovers on average $16 for an ED visit for self-pays (contrast this with over $300 for private insurance). We only get this much because our physician group will send unpaid bill to collections and go after credit scores. The hospital sends only one bill but does not even bother sending unpaid bills to collections because the yield is so low.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belmont31R View Post
    I have an APPT with a GI doc on the 24th at 2PM. I already asked about costs, and they do 50% off if you pay at the time of visit. I asked what a general visit would cost and the clerk said 150-500 but with the 50% discout the most Ill pay the first time is 250.

    Im amazed more people do not do cash and carry visits but was also amazed, prior to this, no one wants to see people without a referral or insurance. I told one lady at a specialist clinic I would come with a stack of 100's if she was worried about payment and they still would not see me without insurance. That was just to get a consult not for surgery or anything. Both my wife and I were calling around to every clinic and office in Central Tx.


    Ill try to get a copy of my records from the ER but at the clinic my white blood cell count was 14.6 when it said the normal range was 5-10 (? Might be off a few 1/10ths). Urine test was normal, and Ive had no change in urine outputs. At the hospital my WBC was 8.X. The ER doc said it can fluctuate hour to hour.


    He gave me Bentyl 20MG 15X 3X daily.
    PM sent.

  6. #26
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    If you don't earn 80-100k + a year, you're better off gaming the system.

    The straight and narrow just doesn't pay anymore.

    If you earned a measly 10-20k a year through your legitimate "job", you would be taxed very little. The quasi legal cash-only side work or drug dealing you do on the side would be tax-free. Because you'd be poor on the books you'd get all sorts of freebies. You'd qualify for your state's federally mandated "cost containment" healthcare system where you'd probably never see another medical bill in your life no matter how much you go to the doctor. Even if you call the ambulance to take a ride to the hospital, because the ambulance is free and the taxi is going to want money. You can also get your bridge card to pay for thousands of dollars worth of food you'd otherwise have to "earn money" to pay for. Additionally many states will give you a cell phone, or monthly vouchers for car payments (maintenance is free), if you take it to a shop for a non-safety item, they will write it up as a safety item and get you back on the road. Section 8 pays for what? 80% of your housing? Not a bad deal, probably much better than the "you pay for someone elses section 8 housing" deal you're getting right now.

    Not only is being "poor" here better than actual poverty in other countries, it's better than actually working here.

    Personally, I don't want shit for free, I just want certain sectors of the economy to return to a fee-for-service model where there is as much price discrimination as in the flat screen TV market, IE practically none.
    "Life is short, but the years are long." - Robert A. Heinlein

  7. #27
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    Belmont, I've had a similar experience in the ER as you. I've also had the complete opposite in a different ER. About 3 years ago, on my birthday going to dinner with friends, I start experienceing severe pain in my lower back on the right side. We drop the kids off at my brothers and head to an urgent care center. I'm laid oout in the back seat of the care on the way there. We get there and spend about an hour in an exam room and they then send us to the ER. This is the worst pain I've ever felt in my life. We get to the ER and I have to be wheeled in with a wheel chair. Hurts too much to walk. Check in and then we end up waiting. By this time the pain is too much for me to sit down or stand up. I'm laid out on the cold floor moaning and groaning. The floor is the only thing comfortable, relatively speaking that is. 3hrs later we finally get seen. So I'm on the floor for 3hrs and NO ONE does anything to help me at all. When we get in they do X-rays and whatever else and then they tell me I have a couple of Kidney Stones and they start an IV with Dilaudid. Pain goes away in minutes. After that we get prescriptions for Percoset and a referral to a Urologist. So 4-5 hours later I'm finally home. Best Birthday present ever, Oh Boy.

    Now it's a year and a half later. Here goes round 2. I'm at work and I call my wife and tell her to come get me I've got stones again. This time I tell her to take me to a hospital that is 45 minutes away from here in another county. I've been to this hospital many times with my Step Father because of his issues. Great people there. This ER is nicely carpeted, has rocking chairs in the lobby, big screen TV's and a bunch of different, very nice vending machines. The type of people living in this county and city that the hospital serves are very very well to do. I barely walk in and tell the attendent at the front desk that I'm having a kidney stone attack. Before i can go on she tells me that I'm a priority and if at possible to stand or sit over to the side and she will put me ahead of every one else. There were about 20 people sitting in the lobby. Within 5-10 minutes I'm on my way back to be seen. They put me in a exam room, do the prelim vitals check and ask me if I have any allergies to any meds or pain killers and then start up an IV with Dilaudid. My wife finishes the rest of the stuff with the nurse. 30 minutes later I have a referral with a Urologist in a practice right around the corner from the hospital. An hour and a half after getting to the ER we are in the Urologist office. I've already had X-rays done at the ER and the Urologist has all of my records from the ER. Within 3-4 hours at most I'm on my way home after stepping foot into the ER, seeing a Urologist and going through a complete workup with him and given a treatment plan and followup visit etc. The 2 experiences were like night an day. The only cost to me was my ER c-opay and office visit co-pay. Same co-pay's for both places and incidents but vastly different care. I think the difference is that one Hospital serves mostly well do do patients and the other sees a lot of non-paying fairly poor people who use the ER as an Urgent Care Center.
    Last edited by Watrdawg; 08-10-11 at 09:08.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanesmith View Post
    The liver function tests that you describe are not in a CBC (complete blood count) which only includes hemoglobin, hematocrit, white blood cell count, platelet count, etc.
    I'll take your word for that. Every CBC that they did on my son for over three years included liver function tests. The liver function was probably automatic because of the daily chemo for leukemia.

    The spots in the stool, pain discription lead me to believe it might be a liver issue. Those symptoms that the OP described were indicators for us that the liver was having issues.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belmont31R View Post

    I will never go to his hospital again.
    Nor should you. Hospitals are like any business, they range considerably in quality, organization, staff, etc.

    There's a small local hospital by me I have taken my GF to several times (against my advice...) and similar experiences were had. Me, I'd drive the extra 15 minutes to a much better hospital where experience was much better. GF has partially learned her lesson, but still insists on going to that POS place close to the house vs the world famous place an extra 15-20 minute drive.

    The system is all screwed up on many levels to be sure, but it's also important to note all hospitals are not created equal.
    - Will

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  10. #30
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    Frustrating!

    Sounds like a PITA.

    I've had great luck with my local health center. I don't always see the same Doc or PA but they've treated me well and spend more time with me than I would expect, getting an excellent history and keeping it up to date. They offer cash deals too.

    I went in and saw my PA in 2003 with shortness of breath. She did an exam and took x-rays. She pointed out my swollen lymp nodes in the X-Ray and told me I had Mono or Cancer. I went to the cancer Doc who drew blood, looked at it in house under the microscope and said I had Hairy Cell Leukemia but my blood work needed to be sent to the lab for an official diagnosis.

    I wish you luck. It is frustrating trying to work with the huge system. I went to the pharmacy a few months ago and was told my scrip was 424. I said $4.24 or $424? It was $424, for a month of maintenance medication. I told her to keep it there was no way I could afford it. Through my local Health Center I bought the SAME Freaking Medication for $8 and change! I makes my head spin. With out my insurance there is no way I could have fought the cancer twice. The monthly bills were Scary Huge.
    "Real men have always needed to know what time it is so they are at the airfield on time, pumping rounds into savages at the right time, etc. Being able to see such in the dark while light weights were comfy in bed without using a light required luminous material." -Originally Posted by ramairthree

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