"I think my gun is off, can you shoot it and tell me?"

[Dachs]

I'm guilty of this one.

Only did it once, and not all that long ago. I had just switched from a 1911 to a G19, so first things first, I swapped out the sights. I did the sight install myself, and went to the range. I was still adapting to a real trigger pull, after being spoiled by the 1911 for far too long, and all of my rounds were heading left. I assumed it was me, but I just didn't know. Having a more experienced shooter fire it was really just part of my troubleshooting process and it let me concentrate on what I needed to do (work trigger control).

This makes sense. But, it sounds like you are coming from the right mindset: "is it me?" and not "its this crappy gun..it can't be me!". Plus, in your case, you made modifications to a new weapon so it's logical to eliminate variables.

[mvelimir]

Sorry about the mistake. I've seen to often when someone is teaching others and they think it's about embarrassing a student. For example - when guys give a 90lbs girl to shoot .44 Magnum or Shotgun loaded with slugs and then they laugh their ass off as the poor girls is thrown back or injured.

And yes - you're right. This way you do get a chance to shoot all kinds of guns and see all the pros and cons and how they fit or not to you.

You may have mistaken my post. It was meant to be funny and the fact that it you get to shoot a lot of guns that you most likely would either never own or shoot. We ALWAYS answer students questions and do our best to fix their issues. In fact, we care so much about this that we offer FREE pistol and carbine classes.

Shooting guns you are not familiar with stretches you as a shooter. Meaning that if you are a 1911 shooter with a 4LBS triggger and now have to shoot a DA revolver with a 12LBS trigger, you will have to work at it. This is a great way to make sure that your ability to manipulate the trigger straight to the rear is there.

IMHO, once a student gets a mental block that there is something mechanically wrong with their pistol, they will shut down and not learn any more. If you can show them the kind of accuracy that their gun is capable of, their confidence will go through the roof.

Personally, I never shoot a student’s gun UNLESS they ask. Prior to that, we are working on all the fundamentals to get them going in the right direct.

All good instructors shoot drills in front of their students. Many people are visual leaners so it is a very important for them to see how it is down. So if you are at a SHOOTING class and the instructor does not shoot any of the drills, run away.


C4

[C4IGrant]

Sorry about the mistake. I've seen to often when someone is teaching others and they think it's about embarrassing a student. For example - when guys give a 90lbs girl to shoot .44 Magnum or Shotgun loaded with slugs and then they laugh their ass off as the poor girls is thrown back or injured.

And yes - you're right. This way you do get a chance to shoot all kinds of guns and see all the pros and cons and how they fit or not to you.

No worries.


C4

[QuietShootr]

So one of the things I have learned about teaching new gun owners how to shoot is that at some point they will question whether it is the gun or them. "I mean, can I really aim here and then have rounds impact a full foot low and to the left?? "Something HAS to be wrong with my sights right??" Uhm, no, you are jerking the HOLY HELL out of the trigger and are just barely missing your own foot. "Prove it!"

Oh the joy of this! Ever wanted to shoot a SIG, HK, M&P, Glock, 1911, XD, hi-point, Jensen, Ruger P85, Taurus Judge, revolver, LCP, etc, etc, etc??? Well now is your chance! Just as an FYI, you ALSO have to shoot the gun well because if you do not, the student will get it in their head that the gun is inaccurate and not their fault (which is almost never the case).

For me, I enjoy the challenge of this for two reasons. The first reasons is that it allows me prove the theory that it is always the singer and never the song. So if I want to prove that I am as good a shooter as I THINK I am, I have to perform on cue.
The second reason is that it gives me a chance to see just how F*CKED UP some of these guns really are. Horrible sights, 12lbs triggers, mile long trigger pulls, etc, etc.

So if you want to see just how good you are, start teaching new shooters and pretty soon you will be out of your comfort zone and exploring new things!




C4

I have done that a LOT back when I used to go to a public range occasionally. Some yahoo would be next to me throwing lead all over the place, see the groups I was shooting, then tell me there must be something wrong with his gun. I'd offer to shoot it, hammer a magazine into a big ragged hole, and Dude would either a) get huffy and leave, b) ask for shooting lessons or c) wander back to his lane and keep shooting shotgun patterns, looking really puzzled.

[C4IGrant]

I have done that a LOT back when I used to go to a public range occasionally. Some yahoo would be next to me throwing lead all over the place, see the groups I was shooting, then tell me there must be something wrong with his gun. I'd offer to shoot it, hammer a magazine into a big ragged hole, and Dude would either a) get huffy and leave, b) ask for shooting lessons or c) wander back to his lane and keep shooting shotgun patterns, looking really puzzled.

Right. There are two golden rules when helping people.

Rule 1: You cannot fix stupid (so don't waste your time).
Rule 2: You can ONLY help someone AS MUCH as they want helped.

Funny story. My cousin came over on Sunday (was visiting from VA) and wanted to shoot his Glock. So we headed down to our range. Right before he shot, most everything he was doing was wrong (grip, stance, etc). So I asked him if he would like any input from me on shooting (as he knows my training background). He said yes, AFTER the first mag. So he shot. Didn't hit the 3" circle we were shooting at.

On the second mag, he asked for assistance and managed to hit the circle.


C4

[Scoby]

Hootiehoo hosted a M4C together / class this past weekend for SC members.

The first drill we did was for trigger discipline and it left no doubt who the trigger jerkers were. Pretty neat drill but can't remember the name of it.

Each guy had a partner. Each guy had a carbine and one loaded mag.
One guy would face the berm with the carbine while his partner faced the other direction.
The partner with the carbine would either fully insert the mag and close the bolt, loading a round or, close the bolt on a mag that was not fully seated and end up with an empty chamber, then fully insert the mag.
When ready, the guy loading hands off the carbine to his partner, who has no idea if the gun will actually go off when he pulls the trigger.
This was timed at three seconds I believe.

It was alot of fun and I did see improvement in some because of it.

[C4IGrant]

Hootiehoo hosted a M4C together / class this past weekend for SC members.

The first drill we did was for trigger discipline and it left no doubt who the trigger jerkers were. Pretty neat drill but can't remember the name of it.

Each guy had a partner. Each guy had a carbine and one loaded mag.
One guy would face the berm with the carbine while his partner faced the other direction.
The partner with the carbine would either fully insert the mag and close the bolt, loading a round or, close the bolt on a mag that was not fully seated and end up with an empty chamber, then fully insert the mag.
When ready, the guy loading hands off the carbine to his partner, who has no idea if the gun will actually go off when he pulls the trigger.
This was timed at three seconds I believe.

It was alot of fun and I did see improvement in some because of it.

That is ball and dummy. Works pretty well with an AR, but works FANTASTIC with a pistol. There are also FOUR parts to this drill (FYI).

You can do ball and dummy drills on your own. Get dummy rounds and load them in your mag (50/50 split). When you get a flinch on a dummy round, remove the mag, clear weapon do five good dry fires (as if there was a coin or spent casing on your front sight).

We must replace the bad trigger pull with a good one so the dry fires are very important.


C4

[Scoby]

Yep, that's it. Ball and dummy.

And yes, Chad did require everyone who flinched to do three or four dry fires after.

[Wiggity]

Yep, that's it. Ball and dummy.

And yes, Chad did require everyone who flinched to do three or four dry fires after.

Great idea, I want to try this now

[LHS]

I find a set of CT lasergrips is an invaluable training aid for trigger issues. It's hard for someone to argue that it's the gun's fault when they SEE the red dot jerk down and left as they yank on the trigger.