electric/hybrid batteries are "green" ??

[Jer]

Back in 04 I was looking at Hybrids and Diesels to replace my SUV until I finally settled on the Civic Hybrid. I started looking at the numbers and in comparing it with the other Honda Civic models I could not understand what the hubub was about.

Back then the life expectancy for the batteries was about 80k at a cost of $8k to replace (I understand it has gone way down since). The MPG wasn't all that different than a regular Civic and even with the tax credit offered back then, I knew I would end up in the hole if I bought the hybrid because of how much I drove.

So I bought a Civic EX (non-hybrid). I now have almost 150k miles on it and have posted gas mileages of up to 45 MPG (all highway) with an around town average of 34 MPG.

Am I glad that I did not buy the hybrid because I probably would have had to replace its battery at least once and maybe twice. Plus it's "green-ness" is offset by the fact that the batteries it uses cannot be recycled and would have to live in a dump for a very long time.

Just like the Flex fuel craze, hybrids are for suckers. Unless they can come up with longer-lasting batteries that can be reused or recycled, I'm not even going to consider them.

Plus, I have yet to come across a hybrid driver who wasn't a moron. I mean really, just because you drive a hybrid of some sort it doesn't mean you should be driving on the fast lane at BELOW the posted speed limit. There is no such thing as a "Hybrid only lane"!!

Another blanket moron statement. Now you can say you came across someone who isn't a moron that owns one. If you spot either myself or my wife in the left hand lane doing less than the speed limit then you can call us whatever you want.

The bottom line is that you notice the SLOW ones and the rest you pay no never mind too because they're going about their business... just like you. If you lived in Colorado I'm sure you've been passed a time or two by either my wife or myself driving hers and since it's a Camry hybrid probably wouldn't even have noticed.

I often found that those disparaging hybrids the most are trying to justify their own car purchases. Should I just call them all morons?

[orionz06]

Another blanket moron statement. Now you can say you came across someone who isn't a moron that owns one. If you spot either myself or my wife in the left hand lane doing less than the speed limit then you can call us whatever you want.

The bottom line is that you notice the SLOW ones and the rest you pay no never mind too because they're going about their business... just like you. If you lived in Colorado I'm sure you've been passed a time or two by either my wife or myself driving hers and since it's a Camry hybrid probably wouldn't even have noticed.

I often found that those disparaging hybrids the most are trying to justify their own car purchases. Should I just call them all morons?

Most hybrid drivers, and drivers in general, are morons. That easier to swallow?

If you don't believe me, ride a bicycle through town and it becomes far too obvious.

[Todd.K]

...save about two grand and buy a Honda Accord 4cyl which wasn't even comparably equipped.

Was that the price difference after the subsidies?

[Jer]

Most hybrid drivers, and drivers in general, are morons. That easier to swallow?

That's fine and I can live with that. I just don't think 'Hybrid owners are morons' is a fair statement. I tend to take offense since I own one and am not a moron

If you don't believe me, ride a bicycle through town and it becomes far too obvious.

I've ridden both bikes and motorbikes so I too have quite a bit of first hand experience with moron drivers. I no longer ride bikes on public roadways because of one such moron that pulled out in front of me on my 2007 GSX-R1000 with only 1200 miles on the odometer. I was doing about 35mph and the idiot just pulled right out. It wouldn't be very fair of me to say 'all Ford drivers are morons' based on a handful of experiences, would it?

Also, off topic but I've experienced my share of bike rider morons too.

[Jer]

Was that the price difference after the subsidies?

Our Camry Hybrid was actually considerably less expensive because at the time we had about $5k in federal and state tax credits. I didn't even factor that into my comparison.

[orionz06]

It wouldn't be very fair of me to say 'all Ford drivers are morons' based on a handful of experiences, would it?

I doubt it would be too far from the truth.

Also, off topic but I've experienced my share of bike rider morons too.

They are normally the ones so stupid even Darwin can't touch them.

[Honu]

Take a look at the CRX. What a cool car that was. My buddy had the Si w/a manual transmission and that puppy was pretty darn quick too. They were inexpensive, looked good, lasted, got good gas mileage and best of all were affordable. The problem is all the safety and technology has added gobs of weight which adversely affects acceleration which is how most American base a large part of their vehicle buying decision. We've become addicted to speed so to continue to meet those requests while meeting government requirements on safety and technology fuel economy has to suffer unless some magical power source can be discovered.

those were great cars and got over 50 MPG they are coming out with a CR-Z or did ? I remember reading about it a bit ago but not sure to much as it wont be a family ride

I remember lots of small 80s cars getting 40-50 though ?

[SHIVAN]

while newer cars are way safer than 80s cars funny how some of the early hondas toyotas and such got really good mileage ?

EPA mandated emissions controls sap fuel economy. So does weight.

Those old CVCC's weighed like 1800lbs or something ridiculous.

[Jer]

those were great cars and got over 50 MPG they are coming out with a CR-Z or did ? I remember reading about it a bit ago but not sure to much as it wont be a family ride

I remember lots of small 80s cars getting 40-50 though ?

It's been out for a little bit now and I've driven one. Unfortunately it's not like the oldie. It's heavier, more expensive, drives like a yacht in comparison, gets worse fuel economy and the kicker of it all is it's pretty expensive compared to the older version. Aside from the name and general shape it really doesn't share anything else which is unfortunate. What they should have done was updated the previous version and with the advancements they've made since that car was engineered they should have been able to make it slightly faster with slightly better fuel economy and a few more creature comforts for not too much more money. I think they would have had a hit on their hands. I think that's the car Americans have been asking for but manufacturers can't seem to figure it out.

[Thomas M-4]

EPA mandated emissions controls sap fuel economy. So does weight.

Those old CVCC's weighed like 1800lbs or something ridiculous.

I had to rebuild one of those CVCC engines in the early 90's for shop class. The lean burn chamber design was neat. Seams that it dropped out of favor after fuel injection became standard.

My uncle bought one when they first came out to replace his Gremlin