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Thread: What Brands to Avoid?

  1. #31
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    The WORST ARs I've seen are from OLYMPIC ARMS and LWRCi.

    I've seen bad guns from other makers... but not in the volume of the previously mentioned two.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by matemike View Post
    Thread jack... Sorta

    S&W M&P 15 - to avoid or not to avoid? I hardly hear much about them. Certainly not as much as DPMS or RR. So are they good? Even though not a Colt or DD.

    IG, please elaborate if you don't mind
    Like jhs1969 and MSteele said... they're built properly. The downsides you might see are the BCG (non-FA) and the barrel (4140 steel, 1/9 twist), but that's to be expected in a cheaper rifle. I picked an OR up so I could shoot while I spent a few months getting the parts for my build. After 1k rounds I decided to keep it as a backup rifle.

    The MOE/OR models can be found for $750-800 at the right places and I believe S&W still offers a $100 LEO/military rebate. The T/X/VTAC (VTAC comes in 1/7 twist, not sure about the other two) models that cost $1100-1600 are a little overpriced for what they are imho. You're better off building your own or looking elsewhere at that point.
    Last edited by товарищ; 09-03-11 at 12:03.

  3. #33
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    Double post
    Last edited by jonconsiglio; 09-03-11 at 12:02.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~ Paul Howe

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    These threads never go well for seveal reasons.

    The first main reason is that MOST PEOPLE have experience with ONE or TWO AR's. They also tend to have very low round counts with little to now training school experience.

    The second reason is that most people are married to their purchase. They often suffer from "Malfunction Amnesia" and cannot remember their weapon ever having a problem.


    People would be wise to realize that not all opinions are equal. Meaning that you could have someone like IZGunz (professional armorer) that has seen more guns than 90% of the M4C members VS a guy that owns ONE AR.

    I will stay away from poo-pooing any certain brand and just tell people to buy from KNOWN QUALITY Companies. Some of these companies would be BCM, DD, Colt, KAC, Noveske, LMT, etc.



    C4
    Nothing bothers me more than people with limited experience and absolutely no training swearing that certain products are the best thing and better than all the other products they've never even handled then bashing products they've never even seen in person.

    There's a member or two here with a high post count that do that constantly then you get some new AR owner thinking this guy actually knows what he's talking about.

    In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king... Or something like that.

    I know what works for me and I know what doesn't. I have no clue what will work for the next guy... nor do I care for the most part.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~ Paul Howe

  5. #35
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    Grant is more qualified than I to speak about S&W. They want to hit a home run, but they are slacking at batting practice. A few tweaks and they could make it right. It seems to be the curse of certain AR manufacturers.

    Quote Originally Posted by matemike View Post
    Thread jack... Sorta

    S&W M&P 15 - to avoid or not to avoid? I hardly hear much about them. Certainly not as much as DPMS or RR. So are they good? Even though not a Colt or DD.

    IG, please elaborate if you don't mind



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    MPS,

    You are exactly the type of poster that I am referring to. You see, you are making a decision or spouting off an opinion based on the sample size of ONE AR (DPMS) that you own.

    Some of us here base our decisions off the sample size of HUNDREDS. On my last contract in Iraq I had 500 BM's under my care. I also had an opportunity to work on some DPMS guns and they were garbage.

    If you like your DPMS so much, then I have to ask why did you buy a Colt? After all there is no difference between them and with the money you saved you could have purchased more worthless stuff.

    I will almost be willing to bet that if I checked your carrier key screws (unless you have fixed them) they were not torqued and staked properly. I can almost guarantee that your castle nut wasn't staked properly (but that is hot or miss with DPMS).

    Your gas port is probably rather large as well.

    If you don't think that HP/MPI testing of barrels and bolts is important, then nothing we are going to tell you is going to change your mind. In addition the DPMS I looked at in country also did not have true 5.56 chambers. I posted at least one pic of M-guns reamer that I used in a DPMS chamber and what came out of it.

    I love when you guys come out swinging with the drama queen statements like "the latter will not disintegrate in your hands after 200 rounds" . No one here has ever said that. What we have said is that the lack of quality control and variances will lead to problems. The question is simply; when?
    Hell, I didn't even know they would send BM's and DPMS's to Iraq.......
    “WE THE PEOPLE are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”


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  7. #37
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    Who is they? FYI- They were being used by private contractors. Simply because those who made the purchases don't have any idea what the difference is as they all look the same.

    And of course there was the price factor as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by loganp0916 View Post
    Hell, I didn't even know they would send BM's and DPMS's to Iraq.......



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by MPS View Post

    Contrary to many armchair internet "expert" opinions,
    Is that really what you want to say here on your 5th post? Really? I suspect lane correction incoming...

    Quote Originally Posted by MPS View Post
    the latter will not disintegrate in your hands after 200 rounds.
    If that's all you put through them per year, and it's something you may plink at the range with, differences may or may not show themselves.

    I have a BM that has never been anything but reliable, but it's not a hard use gun, and I'd trade it in quickly and purchase something else if it was going to be a truly hard use gun.
    Add some zeros to that figure, beat on it in austere conditions, etc, and some brands generally do far better then others, and that's well documented by the BTDT types who post here and other places.
    - Will

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    “Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”

  9. #39
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    With all due respect to everyone, if you're someone that owns a brand X rifle and you're comfortable staking your life on it, rock on. What does it matter what everyone else thinks? The one thing I would say is be honest with yourself. If you have to justify any gun to yourself by saying things like I'll never have to depend on it in a harsh environment or under harsh conditions, then maybe it was the wrong choice. Run it hard a few times, then make an honest assessment for yourself.

    For someone looking to buy for the first time; it's hard to beat Daniel Defense, BCM, LMT or Colt. If you look around, you can get one of the above for around $1100.00 or $1200.00. Vickers and Defoor use DD, I think Falla uses LMT and countless others use BCM and Colt in harsh settings. My opinion is just that; mine, but it's hard to disregard guys that have that much experience.

  10. #40
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    If you own a gun that many here talk down about, don't take it personal.

    If you are comfortable using your sample of one gun to protect your life or the lives of others, then have at it.

    If you're intended purpose for your gun is as a recreational gun, and/or to bring out at family functions to scare your liberal mother in law (there's absolutely nothing wrong with that), then almost any gun will work.

    If you are a first time buyer, I'd spend less time worrying about which brands to avoid, and more time looking at which brands are good to go.

    I think we are in a golden period for the consumer of AR's. There are several good brands currently. They are all comparatively priced with each other, and the availability is there.

    I know this post isn't along the lines of the intent of this thread. But too many people get their panties in a bunch if you politely suggest they spent their hard earned money on a product that is substandard. Especially when you mention a quality alternative would have cost about the same amount as they spent.

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