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Thread: What is your ideal SBR/Suppressed setup?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas M-4 View Post
    Interesting would DD 16'' barrels also fall into this category.

    Thanks in advance
    Any mil-spec (carbine) barrel would.


    C4

  2. #22
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    I am running a Noveske 12.5" barrel with a SPR/M4 and a DD MK18 upper with my M42K. Both run great with and without the can.

  3. #23
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    IMHO. Any 10.3-11.5'' barrel with a gas port from .056''-.062''.

    .056'' will NOT cycle .223 pressure ammo. But 5.56mm pressure ammo WILL lock back with VLTOR A5 system with their standard A5 buffer.

    I put A5H3 on other posts, but that's a mistake, I thought their standard buffer was called A5H3.

    The 5.1 oz. buffer is the one you want for that port. Sprinco GREEN spring is what I use. Based on past experience, and others on this board who have good experiences with them.

    A Noveske with SB and their monolithic rail or something, would undoubtedly be a good choice. But my gun will only be fired unsuppressed in the event of the suppressor taking a round, or something.

    That's partially the reason I use a muzzle brake. I don't like flash hiders on suppressed guns.

    Hope it helps.
    We miss you, AC.
    We miss you, ToddG.

  4. #24
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    My LMT 10.5" with the Vltor A5 is very soft shooting and as reliable as any of my other rifles. I went with the 10.5" just because I like the set up. I'll be adding a Kino soon as well.

    My LMT runs perfectly suppressed or not with the A5 and cycles anything I put through it so far, which is only about 2,500 rounds, about 1/4 of those with an M4-2000 and about 200 with a Surefire 212.

    As far as fragmentation, you're looking at about 50 yards with 5.56 TAP, not 223 TAP. You may get a little more, but 50 is about the threshold for consistent maximum fragmentation. You won't gain 100 yard with an 11.5". Hell, you'll barely gain 100 yards with a 14.5".

    With an 11.5", the best you can bet on for consistent fragmentation from 5.56 75 gr TAP would be somewhere around 75 yards, give or take.

    But, don't let those numbers fool you. Many a scumbag has been put down at ranges 8 times that distance with rounds like mk262, which from my understanding is a small step down from 75 gr TAP in 5.56, but don't quote me.

    Then, as Grant said, there's the barrier blind rounds Where we don't rely on the heavier weight and fragmentation to do it's damage. We can push a 55 or 62 gr bullet faster than. 75 or 77 and it will be near as effective and at longer ranges. Though they'll all defeat soft armor like a vest, the barrier blind rounds will do much better against intermediate barriers like auto glass, car doors, etc.

    All of this info can be found in the threads by DocGKR and Molon.

    So, if you're setting up a rifle for home defense, whether it's a 9" or 18", I'd run 75 grain TAP, and at those distances, even the 223 would be sufficient though I'd try to find the 5.56. If it's a trunk gun or you're in law enforcement and it stays in your cruiser while in patrol, I'd opt for a good barrier blind in the 55 to 64 grain range, like Federal's bonded JSP.

    To sum all of that up, don't let that 1" of barrel length affect your decision. Choose what you want for your specific needs, and work around it. If you just want an SBR because they're cool and you'll be putting a lot of rounds through it at the local range, then I'd probably go for a 12.5" and run either a m4-2000 or Surefire 212, or you have the option of the Mini cans which save a little over 1" or 1.5" of added length and are still extremely effective, especially on the 12.5" barrels. Well, they're very effective on a 10.5" as well, but that extra couple decibels will be more noticeable at the sound levels a 10.5" puts out compared to the levels from a longer barrel.

    My choice for would be a mk18 type upper from LMT with the Vltor A5 and a 212 or m4-2000, though the mini cans are looking very tempting.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~ Paul Howe

  5. #25
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    When you say .056" will not cycle .223, do you mean with or without a suppressor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Salad0892 View Post
    IMHO. Any 10.3-11.5'' barrel with a gas port from .056''-.062''.

    .056'' will NOT cycle .223 pressure ammo. But 5.56mm pressure ammo WILL lock back with VLTOR A5 system with their standard A5 buffer.

    I put A5H3 on other posts, but that's a mistake, I thought their standard buffer was called A5H3.

    The 5.1 oz. buffer is the one you want for that port. Sprinco GREEN spring is what I use. Based on past experience, and others on this board who have good experiences with them.

    A Noveske with SB and their monolithic rail or something, would undoubtedly be a good choice. But my gun will only be fired unsuppressed in the event of the suppressor taking a round, or something.

    That's partially the reason I use a muzzle brake. I don't like flash hiders on suppressed guns.

    Hope it helps.
    Why do the loudest do the least?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurodriver View Post
    When you say .056" will not cycle .223, do you mean with or without a suppressor?
    Suppressed. Don't underestimate how tiny .056'' is. Most .223 won't cycle even suppressed in my gun. I think if I mod an extra A5 buffer though, I can remedy that, but I'm not getting my hopes up, and I don't want an extra buffer around just for cheaper practice. I'd rather pony up the penny to buy full power 5.56mm loads. After all... I payed enough for the gun to feed it the kind of ammo it deserves, and would most likely mirror the kind of pressure it'd see using my defensive ammo.

    But there are some .223 that'll still cycle. Like Hornady .223, I suspect is a little higher pressure than they say, because it cycles in my gun, whereas Wolf .223 doesn't cycle at all, and Tula will barely even move the bolt carrier. Federal(5.56mm, don't know if they offer a weaker loading), Winchester(5.56mm/.223), Hornady(5.56/.223), Black Hills(5.56mm/.223), Lake City(5.56mm), and Privi(5.56mm) will all cycle. Some lesser crap wont. Some (like I said) won't even move the carrier. I stick to 5.56mm because of that.

    Like Grant said. 0.062'' is almost optimal.

    My defensive ammo is Black Hills 77 gr. Practice is M855 62 gr.
    Last edited by Magic_Salad0892; 09-08-11 at 12:56.
    We miss you, AC.
    We miss you, ToddG.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    My LMT 10.5" with the Vltor A5 is very soft shooting and as reliable as any of my other rifles. I went with the 10.5" just because I like the set up. I'll be adding a Kino soon as well.

    My LMT runs perfectly suppressed or not with the A5 and cycles anything I put through it so far, which is only about 2,500 rounds, about 1/4 of those with an M4-2000 and about 200 with a Surefire 212.

    As far as fragmentation, you're looking at about 50 yards with 5.56 TAP, not 223 TAP. You may get a little more, but 50 is about the threshold for consistent maximum fragmentation. You won't gain 100 yard with an 11.5". Hell, you'll barely gain 100 yards with a 14.5".

    With an 11.5", the best you can bet on for consistent fragmentation from 5.56 75 gr TAP would be somewhere around 75 yards, give or take.

    But, don't let those numbers fool you. Many a scumbag has been put down at ranges 8 times that distance with rounds like mk262, which from my understanding is a small step down from 75 gr TAP in 5.56, but don't quote me.

    Then, as Grant said, there's the barrier blind rounds Where we don't rely on the heavier weight and fragmentation to do it's damage. We can push a 55 or 62 gr bullet faster than. 75 or 77 and it will be near as effective and at longer ranges. Though they'll all defeat soft armor like a vest, the barrier blind rounds will do much better against intermediate barriers like auto glass, car doors, etc.

    All of this info can be found in the threads by DocGKR and Molon.

    So, if you're setting up a rifle for home defense, whether it's a 9" or 18", I'd run 75 grain TAP, and at those distances, even the 223 would be sufficient though I'd try to find the 5.56. If it's a trunk gun or you're in law enforcement and it stays in your cruiser while in patrol, I'd opt for a good barrier blind in the 55 to 64 grain range, like Federal's bonded JSP.

    To sum all of that up, don't let that 1" of barrel length affect your decision. Choose what you want for your specific needs, and work around it. If you just want an SBR because they're cool and you'll be putting a lot of rounds through it at the local range, then I'd probably go for a 12.5" and run either a m4-2000 or Surefire 212, or you have the option of the Mini cans which save a little over 1" or 1.5" of added length and are still extremely effective, especially on the 12.5" barrels. Well, they're very effective on a 10.5" as well, but that extra couple decibels will be more noticeable at the sound levels a 10.5" puts out compared to the levels from a longer barrel.

    My choice for would be a mk18 type upper from LMT with the Vltor A5 and a 212 or m4-2000, though the mini cans are looking very tempting.
    Good post.

    I've been contemplating changing my SD/HD/SHTF load to Winchester's 64 gr. bonded JSP, that the FBI is using. (If I can find it, or a clone. I don't think that ammo is restricted, but I haven't looked.) And relegating my BH 77 gr. to backup HD/SD stash, and practice rounds.

    IMHO, Mk. 18 + 62-64 gr. bonded JSP loads suppressed are pretty much king at CQB. It'd be hard to find something better.
    We miss you, AC.
    We miss you, ToddG.

  8. #28
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    Colt 6933, M42K on the AAC Comp mount, RTV mod on the Gunfighter CH. Done!

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Salad0892 View Post
    That's partially the reason I use a muzzle brake. I don't like flash hiders on suppressed guns.
    May I ax why? Is this a preference for when the suppressor is on or off?
    ********************
    Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter. -- Ernest Hemingway

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5cary View Post
    May I ax why? Is this a preference for when the suppressor is on or off?
    I'm not Magic_Salad0892, but my preference is for when the can is mounted. It acts as a sacrificial blast baffle, prolonging the life of the can. I never shoot my 6933 upper with the can dismounted.

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