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Thread: I cant decide on which Medical field of study

  1. #141
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    2 words: Veterinary medicine :-)
    Much less political oversight, no obama-puppy-care. Nearly identical education compared to MD. Animals don't make up symptoms. lots of versatility with your doctorate. who doesn't want to play with puppies all day.
    as far as money goes: you can't make a lot IF you work as an associate for someone- you'll probably max out at 100K after a few years of experience as a country average. pretty easy to own your own practice which will put you at $150K and up. Industry vets also make a pretty decent living. Specialists start at $150K and up.
    AVMA provides malpractice insurance for CHEAP compared to what an MD would pay.
    No real breech of ethics if you want to date patients owners :-)

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICANHITHIMMAN View Post
    WOW thanks for posting that, I had no idea. Its funny to think that there are people out there who act like this. Its just so foreign to my mind set that I cant fathom it. I cant see this being an issue with other medical providers but with admin types. Can you explain how the survey came to be?
    This article in Forbes is one of the best summaries of where we are at in terms of patient satisfaction.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/kaifalke...r-your-health/

    The fact that it came from outside of our industry means that the problem may finally start getting mainstream attention.

    In the spirit of full disclosure, I'm leaving routine clinical practice to pursue an opportunity with a federal LE agency. At age 37, I've been working at very large emergency departments for 10 years and reached the top of my clinical game - time to try something new and expand my skillset. I'll still work part time a couple of shifts per month (thank you furlough!) to maintain my credentials.

    The point of this is that medical school gives you lots of opportunities to do fun shit IF you think outside of the box AND you are not wedded to a particular standard of living/salary. For example, I got to customize deployments to IQ and Afghanistan with hardcore units only because I brought the right medical skills to the table. I have friends who are PAs for the 75th, docs for SF groups, and the medical director for NASA. All use their medical credentials to live very full lives in non-traditional practice environments. In other words med school, PA school, etc are great ways to have a blast if you are willing to work.
    Last edited by Sensei; 03-13-13 at 13:14.
    I like my rifles like my women - short, light, fast, brown, and suppressed.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    This article in Forbes is one of the best summaries of where we are at in terms of patient satisfaction.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/kaifalke...r-your-health/
    Very interesting and enlightening. Thank you for posting....
    Daniel


    Never send a nail to do a screw's job.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hmac View Post
    The way I read it, he thinks that being double boarded means that he's board certified by both the ABMS and the ACGME. Neither of those are bodies that accredit physicians.

    His whole presentation doesn't ring true to me, including his attitudes about mid-level practitioners. The creeping "doctorization" of advanced practice nurses is a market response to the increasingly severe physician shortage. It doesn't threaten the medical profession.
    The American Board of Medical Specialties (http://www.abms.org/) is comprised of many other specialty boards. The ABMS coordinates certification, test taking, etc for them.

    The ABMS handles certification for twenty something specialties (not all specialties), two of which are mine.

    The American College of Graduate Medical Education (http://www.acgme.org/acgmeweb/) accredits internships, residencies, and fellowships. Completing an ACGME accredited fellowship allows one to be certified by the ABMS in a medical subspecialty. There are "private" fellowships that are not ACGME accredited, and therefore one cannot become ABMS board certified from such fellowships. Hence, I specified I completed an ACGME accredited fellowship.

    One can also be "elected" as a fellow of various specialty organizations, such as becoming a Fellow of the American College of Surgeons (FACS). This is not the same as completing a fellowship (which is the highest level of training for physicians), but rather this is an honorary title.

    There is no way to prove to you fellas that I am indeed a physician as long as I choose to maintain some anonymity on this forum. The medical professional community in my area is absurdly anti-self protection and anti-second amendment and prejudiced against anybody choosing to exercise their second amendment rights. I'm in the surgery center right now about to start a case, and the nurses are calling me "Doctor," so I'm pretty certain I'm a physician.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramairthree View Post

    Sometimes when a physician talks about doctorization, they may mean those fields wanting full autonomy and a complete lack of physician oversight. There is significant economic motivation to get as many people seen by personnel with less years of academic and clinical training as possible.
    We're seeing that in Minnesota now. There's a bill before the legislature that would do away with collaborative agreements and allow full prescriptive authority to NP and CRNAs. Frankly, I don't have a problem with that. At the facilities where I practice, it will mean that they will move from the Allied Health Professions staff to the Medical Staff and will be held to the same oversight and QA process as physicians - quality of care will be maintained. That assumes, of course, that the hospital or any of the practice groups would hire an "Advanced Practice" nurse under those circumstances. That's unlikely at least for the time being. Most likely, if the bill passes, the terms of employment will still require collaboration and oversight and will continue to do so as long as we don't become desperate for mid-levels. Which could happen someday sooner or later. As to CRNAs, Minnesota is an "opt out" state. Physician supervision isn't required by law, but since the CRNAs work for the hospital, they are most definitely subject to oversight by the Chief of Anesthesia.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    This article in Forbes is one of the best summaries of where we are at in terms of patient satisfaction.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/kaifalke...r-your-health/

    The fact that it came from outside of our industry means that the problem may finally start getting mainstream attention.
    We've been using Press Ganey for about 6 years for the facility as a whole and for individual physicians. Frankly, in my administrative role, I find it to be pretty interesting and useful for the facility. We do occasionally see opportunities for improvement in patient management and I've used it on a number of occasions to bolster my arguments for facility and training upgrades. I can honestly say that I have yet to see any physician overtly altering their practice in a way that is detrimental to patient care based on their Press Ganey scores.

    Anyway, Press Ganey is only one of a whole host of such quality measures that I deal with regularly. We have SCIP, NSQIP, MBSAQIP, and a few other benchmarking QIP's and at least a dozen people whose sole job is data entry and management. And we have an ongoing in-house "report card" system that tracks a number of performance metrics for every physician on staff. I don't know how much it improves patient care, but it sure does cost our patients a lot of money.

    These days, physician performance is tracked every which way. IMHO, that's a good thing in large part, at least in facilities where it's utilized constructively. I am skeptical, however, that the Federal government will be capable of doing so as the process continues to mature.
    Last edited by Hmac; 03-13-13 at 15:18.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ligament View Post
    I'm in the surgery center right now about to start a case, and the nurses are calling me "Doctor," so I'm pretty certain I'm a physician.
    Well, that's good enough for me. Unless you're one of the new breed of CRNAs, PAs, NPs, or Pharmacists that now have a "doctoral" degree (j/k).

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hmac View Post
    We're seeing that in Minnesota now. There's a bill before the legislature that would do away with collaborative agreements and allow full prescriptive authority to NP and CRNAs. Frankly, I don't have a problem with that. At the facilities where I practice, it will mean that they will move from the Allied Health Professions staff to the Medical Staff and will be held to the same oversight and QA process as physicians - quality of care will be maintained. That assumes, of course, that the hospital or any of the practice groups would hire an "Advanced Practice" nurse under those circumstances. That's unlikely at least for the time being. Most likely, if the bill passes, the terms of employment will still require collaboration and oversight and will continue to do so as long as we don't become desperate for mid-levels. Which could happen someday sooner or later. As to CRNAs, Minnesota is an "opt out" state. Physician supervision isn't required by law, but since the CRNAs work for the hospital, they are most definitely subject to oversight by the Chief of Anesthesia.




    We've been using Press Ganey for about 6 years for the facility as a whole and for individual physicians. Frankly, in my administrative role, I find it to be pretty interesting and useful for the facility. We do occasionally see opportunities for improvement in patient management and I've used it on a number of occasions to bolster my arguments for facility and training upgrades. I can honestly say that I have yet to see any physician overtly altering their practice in a way that is detrimental to patient care based on their Press Ganey scores.

    Anyway, Press Ganey is only one of a whole host of such quality measures that I deal with regularly. We have SCIP, NSQIP, MBSAQIP, and a few other benchmarking QIP's and at least a dozen people whose sole job is data entry and management. And we have an ongoing in-house "report card" system that tracks a number of performance metrics for every physician on staff. I don't know how much it improves patient care, but it sure does cost our patients a lot of money.

    These days, physician performance is tracked every which way. IMHO, that's a good thing in large part, at least in facilities where it's utilized constructively. I am skeptical, however, that the Federal government will be capable of doing so as the process continues to mature.
    I have no doubt that patient satisfaction surveys provide some useful data. The question remains whether the unintended consequences of coupling physician compensation to this metric outweigh the benefits. That Forbes article makes a strong case that the downside is significant.

    I can tell you that tying compensation and satisfaction has been an unmitigated disaster when it comes to emergency department resource use (antibiotics, controlled substances, testing, and admissions). Think about it - almost 40% of ED care is EMTALA driven care to the uninsured (Medicaid + Self-pay). These people also get surveys even though they have absolutely zero financial stake in their care or incentive to conserve resources. None of them will ever come close to paying a co-pay, much less the entire bill. Yet, we incentivize physicians to meet their expectations which are often unreasonable. Personally, I consider lack of payment on a bill to be the equivalent of theft. Giving these people a satisfaction survey is akin to asking a shoplifter at Walmart how they enjoyed their stealing experience after they made off with a TV.
    Last edited by Sensei; 03-13-13 at 16:33.
    I like my rifles like my women - short, light, fast, brown, and suppressed.

  8. #148
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    Late to the game, but ever think of Pharmacy school. Clinical Pharmacy in every specialization. Not revered as the other medical fields, but money is good, ins. is cheap, and not set in specialization (a acute care pharmacist can go work in retail no problem).

  9. #149
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    Certainly interesting to watch the direction this thread has taken since I last posted. ICANHITHIMMAN, I hope your studies are going well and you’ve had a chance to shadow professionals in their everyday practice to get a glimpse of what might lay ahead.

    There really is no wrong answer if you have a desire to care for people and help them to live better and longer through your efforts.

    I wanted to clear up one point about PAs. To my knowledge, there is one accredited PA program that awards a clinical doctorate—a joint effort between the US Army and Baylor University. That’s out of 170+ PA programs. There is very little, if any, interest to follow the path of our nursing, pharmacy and other colleagues down the path of degree creep.

    A summit in 2009 addressed the issue of the “clinical doctorate” and the conclusion was that a master’s degree should be the terminal degree for physician assistants (see JAMA Commentary http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/305/24/2571). There was no evidence that patient outcomes would be improved by adding more training to the already demanding education that PAs receive. We have a saying in the PA profession: “We already have a doctorate in medicine—it’s called an MD.” The implication is that if you want to be a doctor, get accepted to medical school. Docs are, and should remain, the captain of the ship.

    I have practiced with and trained a lot of PAs in 30 years, and not one has wanted to practice independently. Even though I’ve run a clinic 120 miles from the nearest hospital (and my supervising docs), I’ve always respected and understood my dependent relationship with physicians. Are there PAs who make mistakes and don’t ask for help when they should, or are just bad apples? Of course—just like docs—and every other medical and nursing professional.

    I consider myself incredibly lucky and privileged to have practiced medicine in partnership with my docs (one for over 20 years).

    I apologize for the length of this post. Continued best wishes for your career ICANHITHIMMAN.

    Kiwi57

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royalflush View Post
    2 words: Veterinary medicine :-)
    Much less political oversight, no obama-puppy-care. Nearly identical education compared to MD. Animals don't make up symptoms. lots of versatility with your doctorate. who doesn't want to play with puppies all day.
    as far as money goes: you can't make a lot IF you work as an associate for someone- you'll probably max out at 100K after a few years of experience as a country average. pretty easy to own your own practice which will put you at $150K and up. Industry vets also make a pretty decent living. Specialists start at $150K and up.
    AVMA provides malpractice insurance for CHEAP compared to what an MD would pay.
    No real breech of ethics if you want to date patients owners :-)
    I nevered envied Vets to have to convince their clients that need to actually pay for their care or that that broken leg needs an xray.

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