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Thread: Is there better than "Mil-Spec?"

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Interesting thing about the TDP is that there are allowed "addendum’s" to it. If the manufacturer can show the Govt that something is better than what the spec calls out, they can use it.

    Rumor has it, that Colt deviates from a couple things that the TDP calls out (with .gov approval).



    C4
    After speaking to several engineers and NDT techs over the years, I am curious if some of that deviation is in using other testing methods for the bolts.
    "MPI is better than just looking at the part, but there are so many better options" is what I was told by one engineer who I was discussing ARs with.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    The thing you have to remember about companies stating that they follow the TDP is that don't really have the REAL TDP. They also don't make anything in house (which means no control). So they buy parts from companies that "advise" them that they know what the spec is. This again could be very true or it could be a lie. You be the judge. Oh wait, you don't know what the TDP says either. See my bolt catch roll pin story.



    C4

    So, not to unintentionally cast doubt on a company like BCM (whom we've already established is my favorite), but how does a consumer know for sure that the company's products are as close to mil-spec as possible, other than to read testimonials from people that know them, or to read accounts of how they successfully held up under stress?

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by glocktogo View Post
    I think a bit of this argument is semantics. I only have to feel the Geissele SSF trigger in my RR Colt M16A1 vs. the original "TDP" spec trigger to know that the Geissele unit is superior. Does that mean the Geissele exceeds the TDP? No. In fact, it doesn't meet the TDP specs. There is no way to exceed the TDP. It either meets or does not meet. There are no other choices.

    I think the real question is whether there's an advantage to deviating from the TDP. The answer is dependent on which way you deviate from it. The BM/DPMS way is bad. The Geissele, DD, BCM, Noveske, Knight's, Vltor, etc. is good.

    Thoughts?
    All valid points I think. Were we get into problems is when ones opinion (or a manufacturers opinion) that product XYZ is superior to what the TDP calls out. My question and the point of this thread is, how do you know? What extensive testing has been done to prove this POV??

    As I stated earlier, most of this is just personal opinion on what "Feels" better to THAT person. Like your trigger analogy, forum member SURF will tell you that he runs a standard USGI trigger better than any 2 stage trigger (see his youtube vid on the subject). So for him, your opinion is not accurate.


    C4

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichDC2 View Post
    Just curious, are the Hackathorn and Vickers carbines pinned 14.5" or 16"?
    Yes and no.


    C4

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhs1969 View Post
    I vote this thread as a "sticky" or at least added to the "knowledge base threads".

    Thanks Grant, thanks for the info and thanks for the great CS you have given.
    Thanks for the feedback and your business.



    C4

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9114 View Post
    The mid lenght do have a different feel for a carbine. Just my two cents.
    Depends on who made each weapon.


    C4

  7. #97
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    Just wanted to take a moment and thank everyone of being polite and respectful.





    C4

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    The clue is that mid-length barrels do not do enough over a properly gassed carbine to warrant having one.


    C4
    I suspect that a 6920 or 6720 would fall in the properly gassed category, correct? If so you just settled my "which AR do I get next" debate.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Glockster View Post
    So, not to unintentionally cast doubt on a company like BCM (whom we've already established is my favorite), but how does a consumer know for sure that the company's products are as close to mil-spec as possible, other than to read testimonials from people that know them, or to read accounts of how they successfully held up under stress?
    Well, it I was a consumer and was thinking of buying from a company that JUST RECENTLY started listed everything they do as "Mil-Spec" for REALLY CHEAP PRICES, I would read this post and then ask them question from it: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=56063

    I would also consider asking to see CURRENT documentation of testing, materials used, etc.

    For me personally, I have see BCM's documentation and what they do is legit and correct.


    C4
    Last edited by C4IGrant; 09-09-11 at 11:15.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by buzz_knox View Post
    I suspect that a 6920 or 6720 would fall in the properly gassed category, correct? If so you just settled my "which AR do I get next" debate.
    Yes.

    Let's talk for a second about proper port size. The TDP states that a 14.5 barrel with a carbine gas system has a port size of .063. Now when you add another 1.5 inches to that barrel, you have increased the dwell time/pressure so IMHO, the gas port size should NOW be .061.




    C4

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