When to Engage a Threat?

[SSGGunBunny]

I usually carry in a laptop case, since I have my work laptop with me most of the time. My Glock is always condition one or zero, depending on who you ask, I have the compartment unzipped but the weapon is not visible. I have been in several situations where I felt something may be amiss, be it someone who didn't look right or a feeling I got. In those instances, I always slide my hand into the pocket of that case and have my hand on the weapon, pulling it out, aiming and firing would take about a second.
In a situation like the IHOP, I would be in the mindset to take him out once he shouldered or postured to fire and identified himself as a no shit threat. I'm not approaching him or talking to him, up until I drop him, I am evaluating my target...what his likely actions will be when rounds fly, who is in my way, what covered position I will be moving to if I have to maneuver and where he may move to. I will use all the time I have to play out what needs to be done and how to do it until I am forced to act.
A phrase that was drummed into me from the time I was a young private at Ft. Benning was Speed, Surprise and Violence of Action. In order to win an engagement, it is almost always necessary to have at least two. If I engage him immediately when he decides to act with a rapid burst of accurate .45 caliber rounds, I will have all three. Maybe he will get off a shot first but he will likely miss or not even fire unless he has some really good training with that weapon and on how to react during contact.
I may not be a top shot with a pistol but I know I can empty that Glock 21 in two seconds into the kill zone of a target at 20 yards without using the sights and I know from experience in Afghanistan that I don't panic when someone shoots at me.

[5cary]

Well I made the assumption he had it in one hand hanging by his side, in a non threatening manner, as in he's just carrying it inside, so that's my bad. Otherwise it would challenged him with my weapon out from behind some form of cover if possible. Thanks for pointing that out.

And I made the assumption that he would have the rifle at the ready...I guess interpretation of these answers is severely limited by unvoiced assumptions about both the potential shooter AND the environment.

[Zhurdan]

One thing I've discussed with my wife about these types of situations is HOW to get out of the way. Low and fast. If you can't move to an exit, get small.

We were about 6 blocks away from the Trolley Square incident in Utah that happened a couple of years ago ('07?) and were considering going to dinner there when everything for a couple of miles turned red and blue in nearly every direction. Ever since then, we talk thru situations like what happened in the IHOP when we hear about them, just to think it thru.

I carry a gun every day and have for over 15 years. I can tell you though, that having to clear leather changed the way I think about how important it is to involve myself in others problems. Never had to drop the hammer, but it could have turned out really bad even without having to do so.

[2theXtreme]

I usually carry in a laptop case, since I have my work laptop with me most of the time. My Glock is always condition one or zero, depending on who you ask, I have the compartment unzipped but the weapon is not visible. I have been in several situations where I felt something may be amiss, be it someone who didn't look right or a feeling I got. In those instances, I always slide my hand into the pocket of that case and have my hand on the weapon, pulling it out, aiming and firing would take about a second.
In a situation like the IHOP, I would be in the mindset to take him out once he shouldered or postured to fire and identified himself as a no shit threat. I'm not approaching him or talking to him, up until I drop him, I am evaluating my target...what his likely actions will be when rounds fly, who is in my way, what covered position I will be moving to if I have to maneuver and where he may move to. I will use all the time I have to play out what needs to be done and how to do it until I am forced to act.
A phrase that was drummed into me from the time I was a young private at Ft. Benning was Speed, Surprise and Violence of Action. In order to win an engagement, it is almost always necessary to have at least two. If I engage him immediately when he decides to act with a rapid burst of accurate .45 caliber rounds, I will have all three. Maybe he will get off a shot first but he will likely miss or not even fire unless he has some really good training with that weapon and on how to react during contact.
I may not be a top shot with a pistol but I know I can empty that Glock 21 in two seconds into the kill zone of a target at 20 yards without using the sights and I know from experience in Afghanistan that I don't panic when someone shoots at me.

20 yards? Very impressive! How are you so accurate from so far, so fast, without sighting?

[Failure2Stop]

I usually carry in a laptop case, since I have my work laptop with me most of the time. My Glock is always condition one or zero, depending on who you ask, I have the compartment unzipped but the weapon is not visible. I have been in several situations where I felt something may be amiss, be it someone who didn't look right or a feeling I got. In those instances, I always slide my hand into the pocket of that case and have my hand on the weapon, pulling it out, aiming and firing would take about a second.
In a situation like the IHOP, I would be in the mindset to take him out once he shouldered or postured to fire and identified himself as a no shit threat. I'm not approaching him or talking to him, up until I drop him, I am evaluating my target...what his likely actions will be when rounds fly, who is in my way, what covered position I will be moving to if I have to maneuver and where he may move to. I will use all the time I have to play out what needs to be done and how to do it until I am forced to act.
A phrase that was drummed into me from the time I was a young private at Ft. Benning was Speed, Surprise and Violence of Action. In order to win an engagement, it is almost always necessary to have at least two. If I engage him immediately when he decides to act with a rapid burst of accurate .45 caliber rounds, I will have all three. Maybe he will get off a shot first but he will likely miss or not even fire unless he has some really good training with that weapon and on how to react during contact.
I may not be a top shot with a pistol but I know I can empty that Glock 21 in two seconds into the kill zone of a target at 20 yards without using the sights and I know from experience in Afghanistan that I don't panic when someone shoots at me.

Ahem.
I encourage a self edit or something with substance to back this up.

[2theXtreme]

One thing I've discussed with my wife about these types of situations is HOW to get out of the way. Low and fast. If you can't move to an exit, get small.

We were about 6 blocks away from the Trolley Square incident in Utah that happened a couple of years ago ('07?) and were considering going to dinner there when everything for a couple of miles turned red and blue in nearly every direction. Ever since then, we talk thru situations like what happened in the IHOP when we hear about them, just to think it thru.

I carry a gun every day and have for over 15 years. I can tell you though, that having to clear leather changed the way I think about how important it is to involve myself in others problems. Never had to drop the hammer, but it could have turned out really bad even without having to do so.

I think it is highly important to have a plan with your Wife/GF. Even if they don't carry, knowing they know how to get to cover and what proper cover is would be crucuial in an active shooter scenario. Not having to worry about them will let you focus more on the threat. Children is something I don't have to worry abuout just yet but that brings another dynamic into the situation.

[rickp]

Things like these are the reason I always look for alternate Exit signs when I'm in an establishment. Even at a restaurant sitting my the kitchen is a good spot, might not be the best seat in the house but just about all kitchens have an exit to the back.

My girl is pretty clueless about this stuff and even when I try to educate her she thinks it will never happen. It drives me NUTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SSGGunBunny]

A lot of training and practice, thankfully most of it with ammo provided by the Army. I did a lot of close quarters, weapons transition and reflexive fire training in regular and in low light while on active duty. I never kept count but with the M4 and M9 I must have fired tens of thousands of rounds over the years. I'm not a sniper guy or going to be on any precision pistol team but I am very dangerous at short distances.

[MaceWindu]

pinging this thread.

[4x4twenty6]

That is some incredible muscle memory. what if the target starts moving?

I can dump a mag real fast too at a stationary target not shooting back, but moving and shooting is your best bet at survival while engaging a target with no cover or concealment or limited amount of either. AK rds will punch through steel and some concrete walls so cover may not be cover for long if it begins to deteriorate.