Just some thoughts on speed reloading.

[ares armor]

Sounds good in theory, but how far can you take it?

If you run out of bullets in a magazine and have to do a speed reload... FAILURE.

If you get into an altercation to begin with, it was poor planning... FAILURE. (speaking from a civilian point of view)

...and so on. Seeing what the future has in store for you isn't as clear as that in every day life, let alone under stressful situations. The other thing that I question, and only because I'm asking a serious question because I don't have enough training in this area, is this...

So, you do a tactical reload when you get to cover. You retain the magazine. Rotate it to the "back" of your mag stash. You shoot again and tact-reload again. Pretty soon, you have a bunch of magazines that are half empty or worse, only have a few in them. Now if you run into bad guys, you'll be forced to do a speed reload under fire MORE times because you'll have partially full magazines to load from. What then?

I've been working on counting rounds for a few years now. I usually shoot two (I know I'm not supposed to get stuck in that methodology but here's the reason) at a target. I count 10(pairs) and start thinking about where/when I'm going to reload. Kinda gives you time to plan where you're going to be when you go dry. (Am I over thinking it?)

At my local range (if you can call it that) we set up some cover positions and practice shooting and moving, reloading behind cover and what not, so if I'm over thinking it, let me know. It'll save me another scar.

Running dry with your weapon is (for the most part) an avoidable situation. This is why we are calling it a user caused failure to feed.

Keeping a general round count... (doesn't have to be the T) is a great habit to have. Setting up covered position at the range is the exact thing we are attempting to promote. It builds a habit of looking for your next covered position and not just standing in the open shooting.

As far as the cycling thing is concerned. ending up with 6 mags with 2 or 3 rounds in it its time to get replacement mags from someone. Just like it would be if you ran completely empty with 6 mags.

[pmarc]

I'll lay out what we are saying for anyone who can't hear the audio.

Thanks for the kindness.

Since I have nothing to add, because I have no experience whatsoever, I'll just STFU. I'll just listen and learn now.

[ares armor]

Thanks for the kindness.

Since I have nothing to add, because I have no experience whatsoever, I'll just STFU. I'll just listen and learn now.

Everyone can have something to add. I personally have met a lot of guys with tons of experience that remain not nearly as proficient as they should be.

This is mostly a theoretical conversation. I am drawing from personal experience and the experience from my co-workers down here to come to some of my conclusions. However experience is not the end all be all. We are really trying to induce thought on some of the finer points in combat. You are more than welcome to partake in the conversation.

[Preliator]

Ares Armor: I hear what you are saying, but disagree - here is why.

In real life urban combat things are not as simple as 'do a tactical reload before you go into the next room' all the time. Many times things are that simple, but certainly not all the time. My thought move back to April 26, 2004 Jolan District of Fallujah Iraq:

A platoon (+/-) was manning a house on the SouthEastern side of our battalion perimeter during our push into the city. The house was for all intents surrounded by use of a tunnel system by somewhere between 200-300 insurgents. It was then assualted at close range. The Marines on the roof were attacked by grenade throwing insurgents (8 to 10 grenades at a time) from the next house over, while the Marines on the bottom floors were assaulted by the main force. It was a nasty dirty gunfight, where most of the Marines in the house were wounded to some extent or another, but continued to fight on. more than a hundred insurgents were killed that morning. I kept 6 loaded mags on my vest, one in my rifle and one attached to the buttstock. I also kept several bandoliers of 5.56 in my rucksack. I burnt through ever single one of those prepped mags that I had, and every occasion (as memory serves) I had to conduct a speed reload. This was not due to "failure" it was due to the realities of combat.

There have been other gunfights since then, many of them required reloads, and I can only remember one time off hand that a speed reload was required, and again that was in the city, fighting a larger force than the squad of Marines than I was attached to during a 'tactical withdrawal'. Were lives always saved by using it? not necesarily, but I certainly felt better being able to do one quickly, and in my personal estimation you can NOT train enough to do speed reloads, because whether failure or reality of combat is inducing that speed reload - WHEN YOU NEED IT, YOU REALLY NEED IT.

Do many instances of Speed reloads come from impropper ammo mangement? probably, but you are doing it because in combat and real world operations for Law Enforcement things don't go the way you plan.

Take it for what it's worth - but life isn't a tidy range.

Semper Fi.

[ares armor]

Ares Armor: I hear what you are saying, but disagree - here is why.

In real life urban combat things are not as simple as 'do a tactical reload before you go into the next room' all the time. Many times things are that simple, but certainly not all the time. My thought move back to April 26, 2004 Jolan District of Fallujah Iraq:

A platoon (+/-) was manning a house on the SouthEastern side of our battalion perimeter during our push into the city. The house was for all intents surrounded by use of a tunnel system by somewhere between 200-300 insurgents. It was then assualted at close range. The Marines on the roof were attacked by grenade throwing insurgents (8 to 10 grenades at a time) from the next house over, while the Marines on the bottom floors were assaulted by the main force. It was a nasty dirty gunfight, where most of the Marines in the house were wounded to some extent or another, but continued to fight on. more than a hundred insurgents were killed that morning. I kept 6 loaded mags on my vest, one in my rifle and one attached to the buttstock. I also kept several bandoliers of 5.56 in my rucksack. I burnt through ever single one of those prepped mags that I had, and every occasion (as memory serves) I had to conduct a speed reload. This was not due to "failure" it was due to the realities of combat.

There have been other gunfights since then, many of them required reloads, and I can only remember one time off hand that a speed reload was required, and again that was in the city, fighting a larger force than the squad of Marines than I was attached to during a 'tactical withdrawal'. Were lives always saved by using it? not necesarily, but I certainly felt better being able to do one quickly, and in my personal estimation you can NOT train enough to do speed reloads, because whether failure or reality of combat is inducing that speed reload - WHEN YOU NEED IT, YOU REALLY NEED IT.

Do many instances of Speed reloads come from impropper ammo mangement? probably, but you are doing it because in combat and real world operations for Law Enforcement things don't go the way you plan.

Take it for what it's worth - but life isn't a tidy range.

Semper Fi.

Semper Fi,

I agree with you life is not a tidy range. As you and I both know what it is like to have the "paper" shoot back and this the exact reason why I propose not standing in front of the "paper" with a downed weapon while it is shooting back.

I fought in Ramadi Iraq myself and over in the H province in Afghan. I too have been in a few nasty engagements I will leave the sensationalism out this because its not as important to my argument as it was to yours.

However, I still submit that for average engagements speed reloads constitutes a failure. If you train to stay in the open you WILL stay in the open during reality. I do personally train for speed reloads.

Even in the situation that you describe... the houses in iraq have a retaining wall and there is plenty of cover inside due to the materials they use in their constructions. Are you attempting to say that it is a better plan to remain in the open window you are defending and speed reload while exposed? or take 1 step to the side. Reload and then step back...

Every decision you make on the battlefield is a compromise between speed and security. remaining on an angle that you are engaging the enemy from, means that he can engage back on that same angle. You are worthless without your rifle. Until your rifle is back up you are the equivalent of a green Ivan. I still submit that it is a better move to take cover, reload, and buy the angle back.

Even if you run dry it is better to seek cover and reload from a covered position.

The part of speed reloading that we COMPLETELY DISAGREE with is remaining in an exposed position if cover is available.

Thanks for your thoughts

[J8127]

Is it just me or does there seem to be a disparity in definitions here. I don't think anybody is going to stand out in the open if cover is available, but I would also say a speed/emergency reload can be done behind cover and still be a speed/emergency reload.

Have cover, shoot bad guys in face, run dry, reload, repeat.

[ares armor]

Is it just me or does there seem to be a disparity in definitions here. I don't think anybody is going to stand out in the open if cover is available, but I would also say a speed/emergency reload can be done behind cover and still be a speed/emergency reload.

Have cover, shoot bad guys in face, run dry, reload, repeat.

Yes, you hit on the head.

However, go to youtube and look up speed reloading and watch some of the videos on there. 99% of the people training for it are remaining in a static position during their reload. Not even playing the notional cover game.

This is what we are opposed to.

[ares armor]

I burnt through ever single one of those prepped mags that I had, and every occasion (as memory serves) I had to conduct a speed reload. This was not due to "failure" it was due to the realities of combat.

Semper Fi.

One more thing... Yes your weapon had a failure to feed every single time you ran dry. This Failure is due to the weapon being fired and no more ammunition being in it.

You then conducted the FAILURE drill of a speed reload.

Just like you would conduct a FAILURE drill if you had a stove pipe, or double feed.

Hopefully if you had a double feed you would not conduct your failure drill while remaining on a hostile angle. Again, take cover. Complete failure drill. Re-Buy your angle.

[jenrick]

If the OP's post and video is to say that standing static and not returning fire in the open when your being shot at is a bad idea, I agree 100%. I think that counting rounds, and having anything beyond "hmm my rifles getting a bit light" for ammo management is too much. Is it better to reload when I want to, rather then when I have to? Heck yes. Is it always practical and/or possible? Heck no.

Trying to maintain commonality of motion suggests that always doing a "speed reload" and then retrieving my magazine if possible is my best choice for non-administrative (non-range) reloads. You can perform this action with or without cover, and both static and moving.

The goal of a reload (any type) is to get a reliable source of ammunition in the gun as fast as possible. I don't care if you are loading partial mags in when it really hits the fan, or are simply topping off after 1 round fired, you want to get the gun up as fast as possible. In a real world shooting, the very fact you need to reload means someone has needed killing. There may be more someones that need killing, and the weapon needs to loaded as soon as possible. This means I'm going to reload that rifle as fast as I possibly can all the time every time. Regardless of whether I'm behind cover or not.

Given a perfect world would I reload behind cover and before entering another danger area, yes. On the other hand can I see situations where I don't have that luxury, oh yes.

-Jenrick

[Appalachian]

Yes, you hit on the head.

However, go to youtube and look up speed reloading and watch some of the videos on there. 99% of the people training for it are remaining in a static position during their reload. Not even playing the notional cover game.

This is what we are opposed to.

Agree, however the majority (IMO) of the multimedia training we have been exposed to in the last few years is at the crawl and walk stage. I see this as teaching guys weapons manipulation for the most part, not the entire problem set.

I don't agree that it should have less emphasis placed on it; emergency reload is a necessary / critical skill. Agree with F2S, this is a "got to".

It can be built upon and put into context during the later walk stage and then run (not to put words in your mouth, but I take that as your main point...training in context to reinforce the link between decision making and physical skills). Weapons manipulation is only part of it.