AAR: Hackathorn/Vickers Low Light Intensive Course II

[John_Wayne777]

JOHNWAYNE ,

I'LL STILL CARRY MY P220.

Hey, it's your funeral.....

[Dport]

John,
Thanks for sharing the experience with the X200 switch. For some reason, that style of switch gave me pause.

I've got two separate "tactical problems" to think about. The first is a barricade scenario for my wife when I'm at sea. I can see a weapon mounted light as being useful here. The second is when she wakes me up in the middle of the night when the damn cat jumps onto the counter. For the second, I've been more comfortable with a hand held light. But I hedge my bets. My nightstand has a WML on the Browning Pro-9 and a nine year old Surefire 6Z. I think I'll drop the WML.

[Hawkeye]

3. Again, this won't be a revelation to many people but it should be said for the benefit of those who haven't examined the question for themselves: Anyone who tells you about X lumens from a flashlight "blinding" an opponent and rendering them unable to shoot/stab/whatever you is a fool. Even with a light blazing in your eyes you can still put rounds on a target.

The demonstration using M4C's own KevinB (which is one of several I have seen) demonstrated pretty conclusively that a guy with a big honkin' light into his eyes can still pull a 1911 and put seven rounds center mass of a target. I've seen demonstrations using simunitions and even when moving you still see guys holding the lights getting hit...including being hit directly in the flashlight.

Sadly, I know many people who will read this and then site it as 100% proof positive that you shouldnt use any kind of light at all.

I have had to personally rethink some of my low light positions though, based on some recent info similar to yours. That doesnt mean that I'm abondoning using a light though.

[NCPatrolAR]

As I was suspecting, this class was awesome. Ken and Larry are the two best instructors I've had the oppertunity to train with and to have the chance to train with both at the same time made this a class I couldnt miss.

The material covered was a greatly expanded version of the material Larry and Ken teach in their respective classes with added material put in. For me, a lot of the material wasn't new but there were a few twists on things that I found to be worth their weight in goal. One of these was the LIE/VDA concept. It is something I do daily, but I had never been able to phrase it in such an articulate way as Ken did. I also enjoyed the runs in the shoothouse. Of course, how my agency does hits caused me to screw up one of the runs through, but we still managed to knock out the clear without any incident.

On the equipment front, my AK ran like a champ. It is a shame my I cant say the same for my Aimpoint. After talking with Freddie, it is waiting to be packaged up and sent off for repairs. If nothing else, it helped to reconfirm why it pays to have some ability to use your irons in the event of a failure of your primary optic.

My MP9/TLR1 combo worked great and was of huge help during the work inside the various shoothouses we used.

On a differing note, it was great to see former classesmates again and to finally out faces with screennames from here and other forums.

I'll be sure to add some more thoughts as they come to me.

[NCPatrolAR]

That doesnt mean that I'm abondoning using a light though.

ANd you shouldnt be ditching the light. I use a mixture of the weapon-mounted light along with a handheld to solve lowlight problems. For me, the weaponlight permits the easiest way to engage threats. The handheld allows me to use varying angles to illuminate shadow areas and to mix things up a bit.

[John_Wayne777]

Sadly, I know many people who will read this and then site it as 100% proof positive that you shouldnt use any kind of light at all.

The only way to avoid using light at all is to use night vision....not really an option for most people. Lights are necessary, and anyone claiming otherwise isn't really considering the question properly. Yes, they can give someone something to shoot at, but if one takes the time to learn to employ them correctly you can limit that. If one does the LIE drills shown by Ken and Larry properly, they will be doing them at full speed while moving, and should allow you to get within the ODA loop of a hostile that needs to be shot.

If someone uses the demonstration I cited as the reason why they won't carry/employ a light then frankly they are beyond help. Then again, this *is* the internet, and there are LOTS of people who are beyond help. The point of the demo was to kill the idea that is being put out there by silly people that the flashlight is a *weapon* to be used to stop the hostile actions of an opponent.

I have had to personally rethink some of my low light positions though, based on some recent info similar to yours. That doesnt mean that I'm abondoning using a light though.

Lights are like anything else...a tool. Learning how to use one properly is the key. The low light course was an eye opener in that department. I've done low light before and I've been taught to move after using the light before...but I've never been taught to actually drop the hammer sans-light before. That was a new one on me.

The most difficult thing for me to get used to in this course was using the white light mounted on the rifle in conjunction with the pistol. In a maneuver that I dubbed the "click, kick, bang" drill when I was doing it, Vickers taught that if you get a click instead of a bang with your rifle:

1. Get the rifle unslung (assuming you are using a two point...a single point sling may enable you to skip this step and just shift the rifle...)
2. Get the rifle tucked under your support arm in such a way that you can still activate the white light
3. While doing number 2 with the support hand, the strong hand should be drawing the pistol
4. Use the same LIE principles with the light mounted on the rifle but while shooting the handgun

Most of my time on the short bus was because of that drill. Practically all of my low-light training before this had been with handguns, so using the rifle mounted light with the handgun was a new one on me.

[John_Wayne777]

ANd you shouldnt be ditching the light. I use a mixture of the weapon-mounted light along with a handheld to solve lowlight problems. For me, the weaponlight permits the easiest way to engage threats. The handheld allows me to use varying angles to illuminate shadow areas and to mix things up a bit.

I never thought to ask you this at the course, but is your weapon light equipped with a rocker switch or a tape/pressure switch?

[NCPatrolAR]

I never thought to ask you this at the course, but is your weapon light equipped with a rocker switch or a tape/pressure switch?

Pistol or rifle?

[John_Wayne777]

Pistol or rifle?

Pistol.

[NCPatrolAR]

Just the standard rocker switch found on the TLR-1. I used to run a DG-11 on an X200, but didnt like having to change grip pressure to prevent the light from activating.