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Thread: Trigger not resetting with suppressor.

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Krammes
    The tail of the hammer is hitting the disconnector
    If the tail of the hammer hits the disconnect, it can force the disconnect back onto its spring far enough to cause the disconnect not engage the hammer.
    If the disconnect spring in turn is not fully up to tension/pressure rating or even a bit stiffer, and/or the disconnect is slow/gritty/binding in the trigger proper, the disconnect can remain disconnected long enough for the hammer to outrun its chance to get hooked.

    Net result is the hammer rides the carrier forward and may or may not have enough ass depend on the speed it all occurs in X combination of parts to *slam fire or even just leave a small dimple on the cartridge primer.

    *slam fire is really unlikely in general, or everyone would be pulling thier disconnect to get a slam fire full auto for about 30 seconds of work. It can happen of course, but its really quite rare and not something that can happen without a bunch of other magic circumstances at the same time. Or at least its never happened in the 50~60 times I've seen it deliberately tried or tried it myself over the years.


    To get the hammer to hit the disconnect you've got to have some serious over gas/overpressure going on to blow the BCG back that hard to in turn shove the hammer back that stupid hard, which when taken into consideration that you said things work fine unsupressed but go to hell suppressed it sorta makes sense as putting on the suppressor will seriously ramp up gas pressures as I understand it.
    Last edited by GTifosi; 09-21-11 at 15:53.

  2. #12
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    I had a few (don't remember the exact number) of BM carbines in Iraq that did the exact same thing. The gas ports were large to begin with and then over time got bigger (eroded). Once I replaced the barrels the problem stopped.

    From what you have described it sounds like the exact same thing. Although I would be replacing cheap stuff first (springs, etc..) and would even see if I could find another lower (friend or other AR) that is known to work and then try it.



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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    A live round in the chamber with the hammer forward sounds alot like bolt bounce to me. If I read correctly you say it happens occasionally when suppressed and when unsuppressed it shoots fine. Since the suppressor increases back pressure this sounds like the problem.
    Could you explain how bolt bounce could cause this? You are correct that it only happens when suppressed.

    Quote Originally Posted by GTifosi View Post
    If the tail of the hammer hits the disconnect, it can force the disconnect back onto its spring far enough to cause the disconnect not engage the hammer.
    If the disconnect spring in turn is not fully up to tension/pressure rating or even a bit stiffer, and/or the disconnect is slow/gritty/binding in the trigger proper, the disconnect can remain disconnected long enough for the hammer to outrun its chance to get hooked.

    Net result is the hammer rides the carrier forward and may or may not have enough ass depend on the speed it all occurs in X combination of parts to *slam fire or even just leave a small dimple on the cartridge primer.

    *slam fire is really unlikely in general, or everyone would be pulling thier disconnect to get a slam fire full auto for about 30 seconds of work. It can happen of course, but its really quite rare and not something that can happen without a bunch of other magic circumstances at the same time. Or at least its never happened in the 50~60 times I've seen it deliberately tried or tried it myself over the years.


    To get the hammer to hit the disconnect you've got to have some serious over gas/overpressure going on to blow the BCG back that hard to in turn shove the hammer back that stupid hard, which when taken into consideration that you said things work fine unsupressed but go to hell suppressed it sorta makes sense as putting on the suppressor will seriously ramp up gas pressures as I understand it.
    I have never had a slam fire or have it double on me. I did check, and I still have 3 of the rounds that I ejected when it would not fire. All 3 had a very light dimple on the primer. My ejection pattern unsuppressed is back to about 4:00 and when suppressed it is straight out at 3:00

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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric D. View Post
    The first thing I would try is a new disconnector and spring. After that, perhaps a sprinco blue or maybe even red buffer spring. Know anyone with the A5 setup?
    I am going to just try a whole new trigger group. Are the red and blue springs heaver? I do not know anyone with an A5. That was what I was going to go with, but the H3 was cheaper to try first.

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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    I had a few (don't remember the exact number) of BM carbines in Iraq that did the exact same thing. The gas ports were large to begin with and then over time got bigger (eroded). Once I replaced the barrels the problem stopped.

    From what you have described it sounds like the exact same thing. Although I would be replacing cheap stuff first (springs, etc..) and would even see if I could find another lower (friend or other AR) that is known to work and then try it.
    I am going to be pretty pissed if a Noveske barrel is shot out in less than 3000 rounds. Not sure if you saw that it was a 10.5" barrel.

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  6. #16
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    Yes. The blue and red are "enhanced" power and "extra" power respectively. IIRC, IG uses a blue spring in his SBR per Robb Jensen's recommendation.

    http://www.sprinco.com/tactical.html

    If the problem is bolt bounce, I'm surprised that an H3 isn't enough to counteract it. Where did you get the buffer? Do you know if it has the correct 3 tungsten weights?

    Quote Originally Posted by J Krammes View Post
    Are the red and blue springs heaver? I do not know anyone with an A5. That was what I was going to go with, but the H3 was cheaper to try first.
    Last edited by Eric D.; 09-21-11 at 19:03.
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric D. View Post
    If the problem is bolt bounce, I'm surprised that an H3 isn't enough to counteract it. Where did you get the buffer? Do you know if it has the correct 3 tungsten weights?
    Both my H2 and H3 buffers came from BCM. I just weighed them. The H2 is 4.60 oz and the H3 is 5.45 oz.

    Thanks for all the advice everyone. I am going to try to get out next week and try my spare trigger, and maybe I'll through in the SSA-E just to see what happens.

    Jk
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Krammes View Post
    All 3 had a very light dimple on the primer.

    was the hammer forward when this happened?

  9. #19
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    This thread went to hell in the proverbial hand basket after Markm's post which was the only sound one in the thread. A good opportunity for a lesson in BASIC trouble shooting turned into SWAGfest.

    A failure to disconnect can only involve the parts that live on the hammer and trigger pins. The order of inspection / replacement is disconnector spring, disconnector, hammer then trigger. Your wasting time and money investigating any other option.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK18Pilot View Post
    This thread went to hell in the proverbial hand basket after Markm's post which was the only sound one in the thread. A good opportunity for a lesson in BASIC trouble shooting turned into SWAGfest.

    A failure to disconnect can only involve the parts that live on the hammer and trigger pins. The order of inspection / replacement is disconnector spring, disconnector, hammer then trigger. Your wasting time and money investigating any other option.
    As I said in my last post I will be trying a new trigger before I do anything else. I do appreciate all the input. It gives me and other people with similar issues other places to look if one does not work.

    Jk
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