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Thread: Considering the Snub Nose Reload - Spares Carry

  1. #1
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    Considering the Snub Nose Reload - Spares Carry

    Snub interest and discussion has been particularly popular of late, so I offer the following as we deepen our knowledge base and consider our options.



    Purpose: Compare the time required to reload and fire 20 rounds from a 5-shot snub revolver using three spare ammunition carry methods.

    Start position: 5 fired cases placed in the cylinder, gun held in a two handed firing grip, covering a target placed at 7 yards. Spare ammunition set out on a table top in front of the shooter.

    Instructions: On the tone from the shot timer continuously reload from the loader specified (below), firing the ammunition in the cylinder to the designated target zone until 20 total rounds have been fired.

    Target: 8”/-0 zone, RGT-1 target (https://www.letargets.com/estylez_item.aspx?item=RGT-1)

    Drill 1: Safariland Comp 1 Speed Loader
    Loaded: Capacity
    Time (1): 34.51, Clean, 1:1.73 sec
    Time (2): 31.68, 17/20 hits, 1:1.58 sec

    Drill 2: Bianchi Speed Strips
    Loaded: 4 strips of 5 rounds each
    Time: 52.02, 18/20 hits, 1:2.6 sec

    Drill 3: Bianchi Speed Strips
    Loaded: 5 strips of 4 rounds each, load to middle four slots
    Time: 54.27, 18/20 hits, 1:2.71 sec

    Notes and Discussion:

    Target size and distance was chosen to prevent artificially rapid fire for the sake of setting up the reload.

    Spares carriers (pouches, pockets, etc) were not utilized to prevent giving any reload configuration possible advantage.

    20 rounds was the quantity selected as it was the lowest mathematical intersection for the chosen reload configurations.

    Reloading via speed loader was ~34% and ~40% faster than the lowest time for any speed strip configuration.

    The rate of fire averaged over each string with speed loaders was 1 round every 1.58 and 1.73 seconds. The best speed strip run was 1 round every 2.6 seconds.

    For the two speed strip configurations, it took approximately the same amount of time to load and fire the revolver with 4 rounds 5 times, as reloading with 5 rounds 4 times. This is due to the amount of time required to index the speed strip and cylinder to load the remaining fifth round each time. The four round speed strip returns the gun to a firing condition quicker, but with 20% less ammunition. The five round speed strip leaves the gun down longer during reloads, but at full capacity when brought back to target.

    Summary: The limited capacity of the snub revolver does not negate its value as life support gear, nor its ability to accurately place rounds on target if the shooter can deliver. It does require an additional layer of deliberate planning and training for keeping it loaded and able to fight. Many shooters will consider concealment and convenience in the choice of reloads, without regard to performance. The information above may be helpful to them.

    2012 National Zumba Endurance Champion
    الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب

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    Awesome post
    it seems to cause some people real emotional anguish not to insist, at every opportunity, no matter how irrelevant to the discussion, that you....
    Only shoot 9mm
    Only buy a Glock
    Only buy an M4
    Only buy a Toyota
    Only drink Coke
    Only use the missionary position

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    Thank you for taking the time to put this together and post this!

    I for one am guilty of choosing my J frame reloads by convenience (speed strips) with less regard for the actual speed. I was thinking the other day after watching some video from the recent HITS (I think that was the class) that was posted here that I may need to rethink my choice.

    The problem is, when I carry a J frame it is usually for the sake of concealability. To add traditional speed loaders, with their greater bulk, defeats the purpose in a t-shirt and shorts. I may have to experiment with some kind of belt pouch or kydex to see if I can find something that works for me.

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    good stuff

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    Quote Originally Posted by Voodoo_Man View Post
    good stuff
    x2. Indeed.
    “Answer The Bell...” J.W.

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    Very interesting. Figure out the inner tube riddle yet?

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    Questions:

    1. HKS speedloaders use a "turn" knob, the other brand uses a spring-loaded button. Any speculation as to which might be the quickest? ( I have trouble using the spring-loaded type, so it's a moot point for me).

    2. Any pointers on reloading without "stuff getting hung up"?

    3. Something I've always wondered: when you speed reload a revolver, are you trying to carefully reclose the cylinder to avoid even the possibility of bending the ejector rod, or do you just slam it home? The reason I ask this is because the times I've handled a Ruger SP101 I always looked at its ejector rod as somewhat fragile. I have actually seen a couple of these damaged on SP101's at gun shows over the years. I carry a Smith 642 myself, so I'm not as concerned, but that's one of those "fifty questions you've always wanted to ask about firearms but didn't want to look like an idiot."

    4. Given that guns like the J-frame have short ejector rods, you (mostly) have to assist getting the empties out even after plunging on the ejector. Any tips on doing this better?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Glockster View Post
    Questions:

    1. HKS speedloaders use a "turn" knob, the other brand uses a spring-loaded button. Any speculation as to which might be the quickest? ( I have trouble using the spring-loaded type, so it's a moot point for me).
    I prefer the Comp 1 to the HKS. The Comp 1 is smaller and needs only a little extra push when I seat the rounds. The HKS is larger, and needs a deliberate turn of a knob. I do like the extra play rounds have in the HKS when hunting for the charging holes.

    2. Any pointers on reloading without "stuff getting hung up"?
    I'm a fan of these techniques. When used as instructed, the path to the cylinder is kept nice and open for cases to drop out, and loading devices to get in.
    Reload, right handed shooter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjRTdXvjBmE
    Reload, left handed shooter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjkmfOGSVH8

    3. Something I've always wondered: when you speed reload a revolver, are you trying to carefully reclose the cylinder to avoid even the possibility of bending the ejector rod, or do you just slam it home? The reason I ask this is because the times I've handled a Ruger SP101 I always looked at its ejector rod as somewhat fragile. I have actually seen a couple of these damaged on SP101's at gun shows over the years. I carry a Smith 642 myself, so I'm not as concerned, but that's one of those "fifty questions you've always wanted to ask about firearms but didn't want to look like an idiot."
    I just push the cylinder straight back into window deliberately. Neither gently nor slamming it, just what it needs without worrying about it. Short of spinning the cylinder and flicking it shut with your wrist, I don't think you're going to do it any harm.

    4. Given that guns like the J-frame have short ejector rods, you (mostly) have to assist getting the empties out even after plunging on the ejector. Any tips on doing this better?
    You can minimize stuck cases by keeping the charging holes clean and smooth. Use quality ammunition loaded in in decent brass at reasonable pressures. Strike the ejector rod deliberately while the cylinder is on the vertical with a clear airspace underneath. Given enough fouling, cases are going to hang so you may have to pick at them eventually no matter what.
    2012 National Zumba Endurance Champion
    الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skintop911 View Post
    I prefer the Comp 1 to the HKS. The Comp 1 is smaller and needs only a little extra push when I seat the rounds. The HKS is larger, and needs a deliberate turn of a knob. I do like the extra play rounds have in the HKS when hunting for the charging holes.
    +1 for the Comp I.
    The HKS requires both hands to actuate. One hand has to hold the cylinder still while the release knob is turned by the other.


    You can minimize stuck cases by keeping the charging holes clean and smooth. Use quality ammunition loaded in in decent brass at reasonable pressures. Strike the ejector rod deliberately while the cylinder is on the vertical with a clear airspace underneath. Given enough fouling, cases are going to hang so you may have to pick at them eventually no matter what.
    ^ Good advice.

    Suggest training with cases that -are- a little bit reluctant to come out of the cylinder (just bend the case mouths slightly).
    Add emphasis to keeping the gun vertical (up) during the ejection stroke and vertical (down) for the loading motion.

    Try to get the cylinder closed before passing about 45° on the way back to the threat. The rounds can start to slide back out of the chambers and complicate getting the gun going again.
    If you have that one mastered already, try it while fighting from the ground.

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    Interesting thread. I definitely agree with the idea of testing your assumptions, especially on something that can be glacially slow if you screw it up.

    I use the method of two rounds, skip a space, then two rounds on a Bianchi speed strip. Chuck Haggard taught me that earlier this year, and it proved to be the fastest way for me to use a speed strip.

    I like the Safariland speedloaders, as I am unable to find SL Variant models anywhere. I usually carry a speed strip in the watch pocket of my jeans. But I keep the Safariland speedloaders stashed everywhere - in the car, at home, in my backpacks and briefcases, and other strategic spots.

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