S&W 442 or other J-frame as sole self-defense weapon.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

Hear me out.

I think the J-frame in airweight format is probably the best all-around gun for the average civillian. Here is why:

1. Very simple. The Revolver has no safety, no movable sights, no dropable magazines, nothing. Just a gun that you can drop in your pocket and go.

2. Very reliable. While the myth of the unstoppable revolver is BS, it is true that a revovler is more likely to go off when you pull the trigger. Any number of factors from being out of battery due to close contact, empty chamber, jam, missing magazine, etc can curse your autoloader, the J-frame will work in all of the these cicumstances--and if the cylinder is empty keep squeezing.

3. Reasonable cost. Autoloaders are pricey. A Glock 19 is going to run most folks around $520. You are going to need a rigid holster (at least a fobus) and probably at least another spare mag or two. A J-frame will run you $100-200 cheaper.

4. You can throw out the price difference buy purchasing a set of crimson trace laser grips. This is, in the words of LAV, a no brainer fro the J-frame. The laser grip is absolutely perfect for this type of gun. You can practice dry-firing, shooting on the move, barrier shots, etc using the crimson trace grips and save a LOT of time and money at the range. This is especially nice for folks who don't have a range where they can practice practical shooting.

5. Five shots is a serious limitation. I do agree with those who say that 5 shots is the scary minimum. But I do think that the fact that you are much more likely to actually CARRY an ultra-lightweight revolver makes up for a combat autoloader in the glove compartment because you didn't feel like putting it back on before you went in the store.

6. Simplicity (again). A J-frame is really all you need. A simple nylon pocket holster is preferable, but not absolutely needed. You can just put it in your coat pocket (and shoot through it if need be). There is no need to keep up with magaizines and wait for months for holsters or any of the other doo-hickey's that you collect for autoloaders.

[Jake'sDad]

All great points, especially this one.

But I do think that the fact that you are much more likely to actually CARRY an ultra-lightweight revolver makes up for a combat autoloader in the glove compartment because you didn't feel like putting it back on before you went in the store.

I can't count the times when I've been out with a bunch of gun guys, and when I ask where their gun is, it's "in the car".

Anyone who makes the effort to carry a bigger gun, extra mag, etc., all the time, is to be commended and respected. But if that's not you, then find something you will carry, all the time. For most people, a J frame is one that you easily can.

Rule 1 of gunfighting. Have a gun.

[Sam]

Greg:
You should do a "break my J frame test".

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

Agreed. Absolutely no disrespect intended to those guys who slog it out with a combat autoloader. For years I tried carrying P7s, P2000s, G19s. G17s, 1911s, etc. I even lugged a P229 for a few years. All were much better combat handguns than the J-frame...absolutely no contest. The problem is, I can't justify carrying like that all day. I am a professional who has to wear slacks and button-ups all day, and I have a 2 year old. So threading belt-slides or even IWB holsters on and off all day, while lugging a heavy autoloader just doesn't happen. But I AM going to carry a gun. Given my line of work, I am probably more likely to get in a serious physical confrontation than anyone other than a cop or bouncher (LOL). I WILL have a gun, unfortunately, "5 for sure" may have to do.

SAM,
I would be suprised if a J-frame would hold out like the P2000 and HK45. LOL.

[seb5]

I carry a 342 when carrying a Glock 23 is either impractical or I just don't want to go to the hassle of concealing a larger auto. They are great for what they are but I quite honestly feel much more confident with a more substantial firearm. However, it beats the hell out of a fork of pocket knife.

[CoryCop25]

I have carried J-frames before. What I like about them is that they carry nice in a jacket pocket. It is comforting in a situation when just putting your hand in your pocket makes you ready for anything and no one around is the wiser. A revolver will also function in your pocket if necessary.

[Jake'sDad]

I have carried J-frames before. What I like about them is that they carry nice in a jacket pocket. It is comforting in a situation when just putting your hand in your pocket makes you ready for anything and no one around is the wiser. A revolver will also function in your pocket if necessary.

As long as it's a hammerless or shrouded hammer gun.

Working graveyards in a bad neighborhood, the only place to get coffee was the all night convenience stores. Standing off to the side of the front counter at 3 in the morning, with coffee in my left hand, and my right hand in my Tuffy jacket pocket, I probably looked like a doofus lazy cop to the gangstas. They had no idea they had a gun pointed at them as they walked up towards me.

[SeriousStudent]

I have two J-frames: an all-stainless Model 60 in .357, and a 642 with Crimson Trace laser grips.

Greg, I do have one caveat for your list. These two are arguably the most difficult guns to shoot well that I own. An airweight 642 has sights as an afterthought. And recoil management can be problematic.

The .357 rides in a parka or topcoat outer pocket in the winter, so I can do exactly what CoryCop25 and Jake'sDad does: Have my hand on it when needed.

I know it's possible to obtain a decent group. Grip and proper load selection got a long way. A wise gentleman once said "Speed is fine, but accuracy is final." I'm very fond of a pistol that is easy to shoot well under stress. It's hard to do that with a J-frame.

I did end up purchasing a steel 2" Model 60, just to have something easier to practice with. I got extremely lucky, and the used pistol I bought is freakishly accurate. But that's a rare thing.

I have the 642 in my pocket as I type this. But I carry a G19 with a X300 when I am out and about most days.

I think that the 642 should be everyone's second pistol, but I tend to lean towards the G19 for the first, by a narrow margin.

It's interesting food for thought. The tone of my post is meant to be thoughtful and polite, and not argumentative.

[Jake'sDad]

One of the differences in today and 30 years ago, is that today, easier to shoot autos are the norm. We were stuck with our revolvers, and consequently, we shot the piss out of them.

When I had 25 year old eyes, making head shots double action, at 50 yards with an Airweight Smith, was boringly easy. But they gave me all the .38 reloads I could shoot, and I took full advantage.

The hot rock shots today can do the same with their Glocks. It's just a matter of what you practice............a lot....

[skyugo]

SAM,
I would be suprised if a J-frame would hold out like the P2000 and HK45. LOL.

true, but i think that makes it more valuable to do a serious endurance test. I know my glock will go longer than i need it to, my j-frame i could potentially wear out. I'd like to know what to watch for failure. I'd be forever grateful if you'd do a 10,000 round challenge on one.