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Thread: After 20 years, this is what I know about ARs... (Revision 1.2 on Page 10)

  1. #111
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    I happen to agree with JSantoro and others. Shooting from a shitty prone position will actually give you a better indication not only of how your weapon will shoot, but how you will shoot your weapon under stressful conditions.

    Unless you are shooting some type of competition, groups and all that jazz are really secondary.

    As someone pointed out you can't carry your bench around in your back pocket or down range.



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  2. #112
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    I think the Mods have pretty much nailed this one. The biggest thing I took from sniper school was that shooting no matter what kind you do more boils down to repeatability and consistency. One of the best shots I've met had a nasty habit of jerking a trigger. His 24 was always zeroed three inches right for me. But he did it every time in every position he shot.

    A mechanical zero on a rifle is not always YOUR zero. We did zero on a different number of positions. However if I'm shooting unsupported I never do it offhand. The reason for this is because if I find myself in a shtf situation I will hopefully only be shooting unsupported to find cover. So its ok if you want to shoot supported just try to remember to focus on prone less. Can't say of anytime I was perfectly prone or even remotely when I fired any weapon in anger. I'm sure many can back that up here. Take the advice given if you want it but its the truth.
    "I know enough about a lot but enough to get me in trouble none the less." Me

    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post

    Believe me, I know about not doing the "popular thing." Be a gear and gun dealer, go onto a tactical gun forum and tell folks to STOP buying crap they don't need.


    C4

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSantoro View Post
    Only way that that is your take-away is if you deliberately ignore the modifying language preceding and following any reference to alternative lifestyles.

    I couched it in the language I did for a reason; so that the only ones who'd be offended would be those specifically looking for something with which to be offended.

    Maybe go back and read the remaining 98% of what was posted...?
    The ONLY reason I posted that was to show how statements like your second does a disservice to the first. I did read your first statement and it was insightful and helpful.

    I'm in no way offended. I felt your second statement basically said "if you don't agree with me your a fag" which seems to be a tactic growing in popularity in resent months. And its not that I don't have sense of humor, I just felt you were really stretching to use that line.
    "A flute without holes, is not a flute. A donut without a hole, is a Danish." - Ty Webb

  4. #114
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    No, I just use common vernacular when making value judgements on faulty decision paths. My lady-friend is more than entirely competent at building up or destroying my ego on a whim, and needs no help from whether or not folks on an internet forum take what I say at face value without back-checking it.

    I've been wrong before. I know what crow tastes like; it is bitter, and I carry gum or breath mints with me for a reason.
    Contractor scum, AAV

  5. #115
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    Greg and mods,

    I still agree that the bench can be overdone, but I'm still not buying the "no bench" for zeroing. It tells me what the rifle is doing, separate from what I'm doing to it. We're not talking about benching for tiny little groups, especially with a RDS, but I find the bench invaluable for determining basics. Less supported positions then follow from that, and if the point of impact changes, I then have some valuable info - I can either change my hold or my sights.

    Maybe you guys can try again to convince me, because I'm clearly missing something - why you wouldn't want to do it that way. You write of not reinventing the wheel, but this is pretty much the spinning, circular, standard approach to rifle accuracy.
    Last edited by Jwalker; 10-10-11 at 16:08. Reason: Spelling

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldState View Post
    So zeroing a rifle from a stable platform is only done by homosexuals? Has this become apparent only since the repeal of "don't ask don't tell" or was it just confirmed?

    I think some people here have an issue to the word "bench". I thought the debate here is zeroing from a stable platform or not. I personally prefer that when I zero I eliminated as many external forces on the gun as possible. If you have a consistent cheekweld I'm not sure I am following how you would have issues, especially with a quality non magnified optic or iron sights. I have heard of, but never experienced this phenomena.

    What seems to be more probable is adjusting a zero to compensate for an issue related to shooting fundamentals.

    I have an Aimpoint and have never noticed a POI change whether I zeroed from a stable platform or prone with the magazine on the ground. In my limited experience with carbines, the rounds still seem to go where I intended and I have been able to accurately call most that don't, regardless of my shooting position.

    Also, I have never needed to fire more than 10 shots to zero. And that was when I first mounted the optic and 3 were to confirm.
    I just zero from the bench so I know my rifle is there and then correct "if needed" when shooting from regular shooting positions. I usually discover little or no correction is needed. I could zero without the bench, but it would take longer and I'd use more ammo.

    I don't notice any dramatic changes between offhand, bench, kneeling or prone that are the fault of the rifle or the sights except for the size of the groups I'm capable of in each position.
    Last edited by SteyrAUG; 10-10-11 at 14:17.
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  7. #117
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    Agreed (Jwalker and Steyr). I still do not get it and maybe because I can't wrap my head around the "its good enough" accuracy standards.

    I can zero my rifle in about 5 to10 minutes so I don't feel I'm wasting any time. Also, I prefer the rifle to put rounds exactly (or close as possible) where the dot is when I break the shot. That way, not only can I diagnose problems with my shooting, if and when I need to take a longer shot I have a greater margin for error on my half.

    I guess it is a frame of reference thing. I spent the majority of my shooting life in the competition side. Probably a shot I think is bad would be considered more than acceptable by some.

    I'm not military but I am surprised to hear that a sniper would site his weapon to compensate for jerking the trigger rather than correcting that issue in the first place. Can you get through sniper school jerking the trigger?
    Last edited by OldState; 10-10-11 at 14:24.
    "A flute without holes, is not a flute. A donut without a hole, is a Danish." - Ty Webb

  8. #118
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    I think that the words are being taken to seriously. Everyone has their own way. What the point some of the mods are trying to make is people get too Hung up on bench shooting. If your rifle shoots sub three minutes you have a very capable fighting rifle. As long as its quality. I agree to get the gun zeroed but don't spend all day trying to shoot dime groups at 100yds. Get it in a paper plate and move on.

    I can't speak for everyone but I am very confident that I can shoot a zero from any position and know beyond a doubt if I'm broke or the rifle. I can also know that if I can shoot the flat on a paper plate from a buck I can lay as much hate that the rifle will offer me. You can argue that statement all day long if you want but it will not fail you. It's ok like I said everyone has their own way. I just prefer not to waste my time.
    "I know enough about a lot but enough to get me in trouble none the less." Me

    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post

    Believe me, I know about not doing the "popular thing." Be a gear and gun dealer, go onto a tactical gun forum and tell folks to STOP buying crap they don't need.


    C4

  9. #119
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    I zero in full auto only! It's the only way to truly know what your gonna get when slaying bodies!
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    I zero in full auto only! It's the only way to truly know what your gonna get when slaying bodies!
    Lmao. New signature?
    We miss you, AC.
    We miss you, ToddG.

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