Texas DPS article?

[wrinkles]

Read this "article" and this guy clearly seems to be a One Shot Stop fan but he mentioned something about Texas DPS articles. Has anybody heard this?

http://www.gunthorp.com/Terminal%20B...a%20morgue.htm

#2 As for some information backing up some of what DM2 has posted, there was an article a few years ago documenting the Texas Dept. of Public Safety's search for a new pistol. They had gone from .357 mag revolvers to .45 and 9mms. They studied all of their shootings and found that often officers were required to fire into cars, so ability to penetrate windshields and car doors was a consideration. I am going from memory here but here as some of the highlights:
.357 mag worked quite well but they were going with a semi-auto pistol. This was the round that all others were judged by.
9mm penetrated windshields and car doors BUT the bullet tended to fragment, meaning Bad Guy was hit with only fragments which did not penetrate heavy clothing.
.45 would penetrate windshields and car doors and stay intact. The problem was that going thru the windshields or car doors slowed the round down enough that it would not penetrate heavy clothing.
.40 caliber was considered but viewed as a cross between 9mm and .45, meaning you get the best and worst of both calibers.
.357 SIG is what they ended up getting. It had similar ballistics with .357 mag, would penetrate windshields and car doors and still have velocity and bullet weight to penetrate a bad guy.

[Todd.K]

"I am going from memory here"

Why quote third hand tales from people who can't be bothered to give the source, when you can find the info on current testing in the stickies above?

[wrinkles]

"I am going from memory here"

Why quote third hand tales from people who can't be bothered to give the source, when you can find the info on current testing in the stickies above?

I'm trying to find this mythical article that this guy is referring to. I know there is very accurate data in the above stickies.

I was not trying to support this guys view but debunk it by finding the actual article of proving that it doesn't exist.

[DocGKR]

Wrinkles--go right to the ammo manufacturer's own data; do you see any dramatic superiority or even a slight advantage with 357 Sig compared to other calibers?

http://www.winchester.com/SiteCollec...law_bullit.swf

http://le.atk.com/pdf/GoldDotPoster.pdf
http://le.atk.com/pdf/HSTInsertPoster.pdf
http://le.atk.com/pdf/EFMJBrochure.pdf

[wrinkles]

I totally agree with you guys again I was just trying to track down thisTexas DPS article this guy mentions. Personally I think he invented it but again just wanted to make sure.

[KhanRad]

I totally agree with you guys again I was just trying to track down thisTexas DPS article this guy mentions. Personally I think he invented it but again just wanted to make sure.

It's entirely possible that he either made up the reference, or he heard it 3rd hand from someone who made up the reference.

References go a lot further if the person citing it is using their real name, and they list real names of people he is citing.

[Fail-Safe]

I dont recall TXDPS ever using 9mm.

TXDPS still uses .45acp, but it is rather limited.

When testig for different calibers, what really got their attention was, and I fecal'eth thy not, was that unsupported block of 10% ordnance gelatin would fall of the table after being shot. In fact you can find a video of the very test on youtube.

During testing it was politely suggested, by more than a few people involved, that they change ammunition selection instead of caliber, gun, and ammo. Those suggestions werent taken.


Yes, the .357sig does have more than a few shoots in which it didnt peform as gunwriters claim.

[wrinkles]

Wow, it's amazing what some people will use to select ammo. Scary that this reasoning was used to select a caliber for such a large LEO agency.

Thanks for the info Fail-Safe

[Fail-Safe]

By the way, "DM2" is actually Deadmeat2. If I'm not mistaken he stretched the truth a bit much and was called on it by his co-workers.

[KhanRad]

Wow, it's amazing what some people will use to select ammo. Scary that this reasoning was used to select a caliber for such a large LEO agency.

Thanks for the info Fail-Safe

Having been involved in the LE community for 15 years, I'll tell you right now that we rarely adopt the best equipment, and that politics and ignorance often play major parts in what firearms and ammunition we use.