Is our government model out of date?

[Honu]

ditto the others mostly

its not the system its the people

analogy
its like saying do we need to rethink cars since to many drunk drivers are killing people ?
no we need to clean house of drunk drivers and truly make them pay and not give them a pass

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

The sadddest and really most perplexing thing is that the the Republican Presidential candidates and leaders don't seem to be able to make the connection that the current federal system is broken and put tht into a lucid arguement or plan.

Yes, Washington is broken- the issue is not to fix it but rather change the venue of where public policy takes place by forcing power to the state level. At the same time, I agree with the TEA Party, but like most liberterian based systems it tries to replace something (very powerful) with nothing. That is never going to be a viable long term strategy. What the Republicans need to argue is that we get crap for all the taxes we pay and that we'll never get the value out a one-size-fits-all federal system. Let Obama defend the current, broken Fed based system while the Republicans can be the party of 'Change'.

[Belmont31R]

Exactly. An old roomate of mine was a cop and told me that most Highway patrol guys only stop you over 80MPH. So the the defacto speed limit becomes 80 not 65 as posted.

This is what has happened to the Government. The only difference being that people still know the laws really says 65.

Ever since Alexander Hamilton was appointed to Washington's cabinet, there has been a concerted effort by some in this country to twist the Constitution into something it is not; but the way they would like it to be. This has snowballed since then with major pushes after the Civil War and in the early 1900's.

Hell, law schools teach "Case Law" in Constitutional Law classes rather than the original intent and history of the Constitution.

If people would educate themselves about the original intent of the Constitution and understand the debates that formed it, they would realize not just how far we have deviated, but would appreciate how brilliant and MODERN it really is.

Our model of Government is the most perfect every created and truly exceptional in the history of mankind. Our politicians and citizens just need to read the "rules".

My government class in HS spent about 15 minutes on the Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers. I read most of them over time but need to go back and read them more thoroughly again.


And I do agree most do not have any clue why things were done the way they were, and just accept the current system as whats 'legal' so they start off with a false pretense. Like saying the EPA is unconstitutional...instead we debate what role the EPA should have instead of why we have it in the first place or if its even constitutional.


But I think the most telling thing is even that Obama even has a chance to get elected. If we really had a freedom loving independent populace it would not even be an issue in the first place. But we have a huge free shit class and a liberal party growing more intense everyday.

[warpigM-4]

well said Belmont31R

[Suwannee Tim]

Before you decide if our government model is out of date you have to define out government model. First, there are five branches of the Federal Government. The Executive, the Judicial, the Legislative the Media and the Bureaucratic. The Judicial branch is supreme over the other branches because they said so. The Legislative branch passes suggestions which the Bureaucratic branch uses (or not) to guide their lawmaking. The Judicial branch may also engage in lawmaking through decisions as can the Executive through Executive Orders. The Executive consists of the President, Vice President and Cabinet Secretaries who are confirmed by the Senate. The Cabinet Secretaries are ceremonial positions, the real power is vested in the various Czars who are not confirmed by anyone. The basic law is called the Constitution which no one pays attention to except where it can be misapplied to increase the power of the Judicial or Bureaucratic branches. The Media is the propaganda organ of the Federal Government though it's employees don't draw paychecks from the Treasury.

[J8127]

I didn't start this thread to talk about how ****ed up the government is, nor do I need to be told to go read the constitution.

I'm posing the question that if things ran the way there were supposed to is it still the best model, specifically in the day and age where I can get anywhere in this country in a matter of hours and talk to anyone instantly, is allowing state and local laws to vary so widely still practical? Gay marriage, abortion, tax codes, gun control, etc... does is it still work to say "the states decide for themselves" anymore?

I'm not talking about Wilson or FDR, or unconstitutional alphabet agencies. If it still ran as intended, is it still the best model for the modern world?

[glocktogo]

I didn't start this thread to talk about how ****ed up the government is, nor do I need to be told to go read the constitution.

I'm posing the question that if things ran the way there were supposed to is it still the best model, specifically in the day and age where I can get anywhere in this country in a matter of hours and talk to anyone instantly, is allowing state and local laws to vary so widely still practical? Gay marriage, abortion, tax codes, gun control, etc... does is it still work to say "the states decide for themselves" anymore?

I'm not talking about Wilson or FDR, or unconstitutional alphabet agencies. If it still ran as intended, is it still the best model for the modern world?

Yes. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[variablebinary]

Strangely enough, this is exactly the same thing a socialist Marxist would ask.

[OldState]

I didn't start this thread to talk about how ****ed up the government is, nor do I need to be told to go read the constitution.

I'm posing the question that if things ran the way there were supposed to is it still the best model, specifically in the day and age where I can get anywhere in this country in a matter of hours and talk to anyone instantly, is allowing state and local laws to vary so widely still practical? Gay marriage, abortion, tax codes, gun control, etc... does is it still work to say "the states decide for themselves" anymore?

I'm not talking about Wilson or FDR, or unconstitutional alphabet agencies. If it still ran as intended, is it still the best model for the modern world?

Your sounding like Woodrow Wilson. This country went from a 3rd world nation to the most powerful nation on Earth in about 150 years. This is unprecedented in human history.

What other model of government has that track record? What would be better?

If you read history you can see that very little is new in human society. The issues today have been rehashed in other forms over and over again.

The concept behind state sovereignty is that it keeps power from concentrating with the few; an idea consistent with most of the Constitution. What in our modern world suggests we should consolidate the government? That would not be progressive but regressive.

[Redmanfms]

I'm conservative, I'm libertarian, I believe in the constitution and I generally have an "orginal intent" style interpretation of it.

When someone puts such a caveat at the beginning of a post it safe to assume that what is about to follow is going to be consistent with none of those claims.

What followed in your post is eerily similar to the kind of "change" posed by Marxist statists.

The only thing wrong with our system is that it has been perverted and twisted over time by control freaks. Attempting to adopt that perversion to advance a political agenda that might be palatable to "us" would be dangerous and a grotesque and egregious violation of the very liberties we value.

Am I insane?

No. Horribly misguided? Yes.