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Thread: Geissele SD-3G is amazing!

  1. #31
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    Slight resurrection.

    Put the S3G in my new .308 Noveske N6 build. Doubled numerous times from various shooting positions from kneeling, prone and benched. Couldn't find the real rhyme or reason. Used what I would consider highly stable and highly practiced shooting positions that I have used for years professionally behind precision rifles bolt and gas guns. Since I was doing a test fire and actually attempting to zero the irons, I was practicing what I consider to be strict fundamentals. Also light triggers are no shocker as my working bolt rifle runs @ 2.5lbs and my other SPR's are in the 3-4# range. Once I had issues, I actually tried several trigger pull types from holding to the rear and even slapping, err flip and pressing it. Couldn't come up with a pattern as to why the doubles happened. I actually tried to intentionally "bump fire" the rifle with everything from sloppy body positions and poor trigger pulls and couldn't get it to double at those times. I let another highly trained partner fire the weapon and he got a triple out of it as I watched very closely. I got his triple on video but I couldn't see a pattern in his shooting either. Fired a total of 60 rounds out of the rifle (168gr FGMM). I also have quite a bit of time behind another N6 with a Geissele DMR trigger and several SR25's with various triggers. I actually wanted the S3G as it does have more of a single stage pull to it.

    Will look more closely but upon cursory visual everything is installed correct. Will do some more checks and probably do some spring swaps and shoot it again. If the issues continue I am going to put it in a 5.56 and shoot it again in stock configuration and maybe with a heavier spring depending on what happens. As of right now I would not be able to deploy this rifle in a critical use role. On a side note, the rifle produced amazing accuracy with irons only. Just waiting on the darn mount for the scope.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surf View Post
    Slight resurrection.

    Put the S3G in my new .308 Noveske N6 build. Doubled numerous times from various shooting positions from kneeling, prone and benched. Couldn't find the real rhyme or reason. Used what I would consider highly stable and highly practiced shooting positions that I have used for years professionally behind precision rifles bolt and gas guns. Since I was doing a test fire and actually attempting to zero the irons, I was practicing what I consider to be strict fundamentals. Also light triggers are no shocker as my working bolt rifle runs @ 2.5lbs and my other SPR's are in the 3-4# range. Once I had issues, I actually tried several trigger pull types from holding to the rear and even slapping, err flip and pressing it. Couldn't come up with a pattern as to why the doubles happened. I actually tried to intentionally "bump fire" the rifle with everything from sloppy body positions and poor trigger pulls and couldn't get it to double at those times. I let another highly trained partner fire the weapon and he got a triple out of it as I watched very closely. I got his triple on video but I couldn't see a pattern in his shooting either. Fired a total of 60 rounds out of the rifle (168gr FGMM). I also have quite a bit of time behind another N6 with a Geissele DMR trigger and several SR25's with various triggers. I actually wanted the S3G as it does have more of a single stage pull to it.

    Will look more closely but upon cursory visual everything is installed correct. Will do some more checks and probably do some spring swaps and shoot it again. If the issues continue I am going to put it in a 5.56 and shoot it again in stock configuration and maybe with a heavier spring depending on what happens. As of right now I would not be able to deploy this rifle in a critical use role. On a side note, the rifle produced amazing accuracy with irons only. Just waiting on the darn mount for the scope.
    I suggest you contact the manufacturer/company first before doing all of the playing around you typed above. Considering how receptive Bill and his team are to taking care of any issues with their triggers or their customers, I think it's only fair that you let them help you troubleshoot your problem first, rather than the folks on the internet.

    Why would you put a SD-3G/S3G in a rifle that is:

    1. by nature intended to be a relatively low volume type rifle,

    2. by nature oriented towards precision vs. cqb or gaming,

    3. not traditionally used for 3 gun competitions

    On a side note, my recently acquired SD-3G is nothing short of spectacular...the speed and feel of this trigger has to be shot and felt in order to truly appreciate how unique it is.


  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRIDENT82 View Post
    I suggest you contact the manufacturer/company first before doing all of the playing around you typed above. Considering how receptive Bill and his team are to taking care of any issues with their triggers or their customers, I think it's only fair that you let them help you troubleshoot your problem first, rather than the folks on the internet.
    I am not asking for suggestions as I am sharing an experience with this single trigger in a .308 rifle since the topic has been mentioned already. I am attempting to do my own troubleshooting as I have a little bit of a working background in this area also even though I don't produce triggers. No need to bother Bill if I can accurately troubleshoot the issue myself or come up with a combo for this set up as I understand the intended uses for this trigger. If I don't come up with a solution or at least the reason for the issues in the .308 then I will move onto a 5.56 3 gun rifle, which I am also putting together and was the intended rifle for this trigger. A part is backorded so I am waiting and decided to try this trigger in the N6. If there are still issues that I cannot answer then I would be inclined to contact Bill. But until I have ruled out possibilities in the .308 and in a 5.56 rifle, I think I will refrain from bothering him at this point in time.

    Why would you put a SD-3G/S3G in a rifle that is:

    1. by nature intended to be a relatively low volume type rifle,

    2. by nature oriented towards precision vs. cqb or gaming,

    3. not traditionally used for 3 gun competitions
    Seems that I explained it above. I wished to try this trigger in a precision rifle as it has more of a single stage pull even though I understand he is working on a single stage now. In reality, why does anyone try anything? That is often how solutions are found to questions or new ideas or how product development is inspired. Or if nothing else shortcomings may be discovered. Some people test and evaluate for a multitude of reasons and I do it as a part of my profession and for curiosity. Just because you may not either understand or agree with the reasoning doesn't invalidate the efforts or the process.

    On a side note, my recently acquired SD-3G is nothing short of spectacular...the speed and feel of this trigger has to be shot and felt in order to truly appreciate how unique it is.

    I got it. When it comes to Geissele, I have yet to see as large of a supporter of his product than you are. I like his triggers also but quite frankly you sound like the used car salesman of Geissele. At least the way I see it, the way you come across is not flattering to his company.

  4. #34
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    Surf

    We have had some small amount of customers who have issues firing multiple rounds. In all cases it has been due to bump firing. What I am finding out is that as the trigger pull gets shorter, lighter, reset shorter and over travel shorter, bump firing becomes more frequent. Although he doesn't realize it the short reset of the trigger that most find so desirable is too short and his finger is actually pulling the trigger back through the reset.

    It seems like very experienced shooters have this problem more because they have developed trigger control to put just enough force into the trigger to drop the hammer.

    It is important to understand that triggers on bolt guns and triggers on semi auto guns are fundamentally different. With a bolt gun the shooters hand comes off the gun to work the bolt, the trigger does not have a finger on it during this time. A semi auto reloads itself in a flash while the shooter still has his finger on the trigger. This is a whole different dynamic.

    Here is what I can do to help. Send your trigger back in and we will increase reset and provide a additional trigger spring 1 lb heavier. This will make the trigger less prone to bump firing. There is no need to suffer with a trigger that is not up to your expectations, we will get you fixed up straightaway.

    WHG

  5. #35
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    Bill, since you're here...

    Would you suggest one trigger over another for someone that uses the more competition-oriented "trigger slap" (or as I think of it, "rapid-reset") vs someone that eases to reset with each shot?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surf View Post
    Slight resurrection.

    Put the S3G in my new .308 Noveske N6 build. Doubled numerous times from various shooting positions from kneeling, prone and benched. Couldn't find the real rhyme or reason. Used what I would consider highly stable and highly practiced shooting positions that I have used for years professionally behind precision rifles bolt and gas guns. Since I was doing a test fire and actually attempting to zero the irons, I was practicing what I consider to be strict fundamentals. Also light triggers are no shocker as my working bolt rifle runs @ 2.5lbs and my other SPR's are in the 3-4# range. Once I had issues, I actually tried several trigger pull types from holding to the rear and even slapping, err flip and pressing it. Couldn't come up with a pattern as to why the doubles happened. I actually tried to intentionally "bump fire" the rifle with everything from sloppy body positions and poor trigger pulls and couldn't get it to double at those times. I let another highly trained partner fire the weapon and he got a triple out of it as I watched very closely. I got his triple on video but I couldn't see a pattern in his shooting either. Fired a total of 60 rounds out of the rifle (168gr FGMM). I also have quite a bit of time behind another N6 with a Geissele DMR trigger and several SR25's with various triggers. I actually wanted the S3G as it does have more of a single stage pull to it.

    Will look more closely but upon cursory visual everything is installed correct. Will do some more checks and probably do some spring swaps and shoot it again. If the issues continue I am going to put it in a 5.56 and shoot it again in stock configuration and maybe with a heavier spring depending on what happens. As of right now I would not be able to deploy this rifle in a critical use role. On a side note, the rifle produced amazing accuracy with irons only. Just waiting on the darn mount for the scope.
    (Note that I do NOT have any experience at all with the "Dynamic" version of the Geissele S3G trigger, only the regular curve-shaped S3G trigger!)


    I'm VERY happy that another good military-fundamentals-ish shooter is having these issues as well! Well, not "happy." But relieved that I'm not a total douche. I sent a few bursts downrange as well, before taking my S3Gs out of my guns (only had that particular issue with one gun FYI).

    I ran several Geissele S3G triggers for around 9-10 months in 2011, including through a Vickers Carbine 1 class in March, right up until 2 weeks before my Trident Concepts Combative Carbine 2 class in November.

    When I first dry fired the S3G I was blown away, as I have a feeling many are. I got it to the range with an already-BZO'd gun and went to town blazing away at targets at crazy lightning speeds up close, when running drills like the 1-5 and 2x2x2, etc...

    But when I got out to just 50 yards, my groups opened up pretty bad. Anywhere from 2-4 MOA, while trying pretty damn hard from the bench using an Aimpoint T-1. This is unacceptable for my standards. However, I'd incidentally just spent months on partial bed rest at home, healing some wounds and getting my health back up to par. I was essentially being a hermit and not doing hardly any shooting at all, with 3 months being my longest stint away from the range. I pressed on though and ran the S3G triggers for a good while longer. I also noticed I'd occasionally have what I guess I'd have to call "ADs," but they were all while preparing to engage the target. I'd put my finger on the trigger after switching off the safety and moving the muzzle up to the target's center-mass and accidentally squeeze off a round into the groin or gut of the target (or into the berm just off below the target if I was out past 50 yards). That had never happened before. But since it always happened just before I was getting ready to engage the target, I considered it a training issue that could be resolved.

    I still kept shooting for shit at 50 yards and beyond for months. Although my accuracy did inherently increase a bit over that time, it still was sub-par and inconsistent. So much so that I started to begin questioning my overall skill and competence as a shooter, not to mention being a former Marine Infantryman as well.

    Then in October 2011, while trying to get a solid BZO in preparation for my TRICON CC2 class in November, I shot off a 3-round burst on my first slow, steady squeeze of the trigger. Freaked my ass out! That had never happened to me before. Ever. The guys at that particular bench-shooting range knew me and know that I'm an experienced shooter (they hang and retrieve my targets), so they let me continue shooting to try and figure out what was happening. It happened two more times in a row, so I had a range officer shoot it and it happened to him twice in a row as well. We checked the trigger and everything looked fine, but none of us were 'smiths, either.

    The gun's DD Lite rail was resting on some sandbags with the vertical fore grip shoved nice and tight into the bags. This is how I almost always set up my guns when getting a BZO from a bench, and I'd never had any problems before. The range officer then shot it from the kneeling while I got video of him, and it would no longer burst-fire. He then suggested it was actually bump-firing due to the very light trigger and how I had it set up on the bench with the sandbags. This proved to be correct. I wound up getting a very rough BZO that day because I was so afraid to slowly squeeze the trigger (in other words, apply the proper fundamentals of marksmanship). I had no issues when slightly jerking/slapping/snatching it.

    I took out all 3 of my S3G triggers from my lowers that night and put in their respective original mil-spec triggers.

    The next time I went to the range, I was completely blown away.... My groups were tighter than they'd ever been!! Just using my plain Jane, no-frills mil-spec triggers in 3 different upper/lower configurations, and utilizing my marksmanship fundamentals I learned back in boot camp in Feb 2002 at MCRD San Diego/Camp Pendleton, I was shooting great. My Marine Corps PMI would've been proud. A couple weeks later, I wound up scoring the 2nd highest score in my Trident Concepts CC2 class, which I was extremely proud of considering the overall quality of my fellow students and their professions.

    I learned that the Super 3-Gun trigger is named "S3G" for that exact reason: It's designed for fast-shooting competitions when using specially-designed, fast-shooting, low-recoiling, supped-up and badass blasters, and I'm certain it performs very well in that role. But in a fighting gun, and/or for those of us shooters that the marksmanship-heavy branches/units in the military drilled into our heads how to shoot a certain way with the rifles we used, you may very well have some of the same issues I had. Or you may not. Everyone is certainly different.

    I am sort of clueless as to how I shoot more effectively with a heavy mil-spec trigger than with these amazingly high quality Geissele triggers, to include the SSA, but I do. So for the time being I'll likely stick with them, although things can always change of course (LWRC seems to have the best mil-spec trigger I've tried thus far over the past 3 years). But I really, REALLY hope that someday Geissele decides to build a good 5-6lb mil-spec trigger with a little very-smooth pre-travel and reasonably short (but not insane) reset.... Basically a 5-6lb SSA without the long reset that forces you to travel past the actual reset click (I'm not smart enough to actually know proper terms and how shit works, so hope that makes some sense). It would be great to be able to have very consistent mil-spec triggers in all my guns! That would be friggin' awesome!!!


    However, do please note that this is just one no-name, former Marine's opinion -and I know there are plenty of squared away talented shooters running these and other great Geissele triggers (I run the awesome SSA-E in my Mk12 SPR)- and it's worth exactly as much as ya paid for it.
    S/F
    Paul

  7. #37
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    Paul, are sure you weren't just using your "fag finger"?


    Actually, thanks for the heads up mate. I was considering one of the 3-gun triggers for one of my red dot blasters. Now I think I need to find someone local and try one first.

    Cameron
    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    In case anyone is keeping score, Cameron just won.
    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Salad0892 View Post
    Cameron won again.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cameron View Post
    Paul, are sure you weren't just using your "fag finger"?


    Actually, thanks for the heads up mate. I was considering one of the 3-gun triggers for one of my red dot blasters. Now I think I need to find someone local and try one first.

    Cameron
    No problem, brother. I think with these types of specialty triggers that's the best possible way to go if possible to find someone who has one installed in their gun. Everyone on the Net has different opinions, and very different explanations when trying to describe the features of the wide variety of triggers. Reading the name "Geissele" immediately lets me know it's a damn fine quality trigger, but doesn't mean I'll like it or perform well with it in my particular application(s).

    And WTF is a "fag finger?" The first image that popped into my head after reading that almost made me puke a bit in my mouth, which is not a very pleasant thing to do to someone!
    S/F
    Paul

  9. #39
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    Retreat, thanks for the feedback. You earned my respect long ago, and any opinion of yours I believe is gonna be well founded. You certainly came to your opinion and ultimate decision based on some extensive time running these particular types of triggers, and you gave valid reasons for why these triggers don't fit your needs.

    I only recently picked up my SD-3G, but thus far in my use I haven't experienced a single hiccup or otherwise non expected function from this unit. I decided to ultimately run this trigger due to the fact that I'm a huge believer in the SD design, and the fact that the SD-C and SD-E are easily the finest triggers I've ever run to date. The SD-C I believe is the best GP, SBR, Patrol, Duty, etc. type trigger on the market. The gun that I rely on for SD/HD(my SBR) normally has that trigger installed in it, and ultimately I will return to that trigger in my MRP CQB after I get done being WOWed by the SD-3G. This trigger is as close to having a happy switch as I'm gonna get in terms of controlled high rates of fire. I find it amazing how fast this trigger is, and how smooth and controllable it is while being that fast.

    I think the folks that might be getting some funky things happening in regards to doubles or whatever have most likely never even fired a "rolling" type trigger as opposed to a "crisp" type trigger. Combine that with the fact the SD-3G is not only a "rolling" trigger, but one that has a very light pull weight, and is also silky smooth through the entire movement of the pull. In short, this trigger is unlike anything out there, and it most certainly takes some getting used to.

    Lastly, unlike my beloved SD-C/E triggers, the SD-3G has a very specific and quite narrow application which doesn't involve true precision or true duty type uses. This really is a 3gun trigger, hints the name. People shouldn't buy this trigger for a HD/PD/Duty, or a precision orientated type rifle as it was never designed or intended to be used in that capacity. This trigger is most certainly not for everybody, or even the majority.
    Last edited by ALCOAR; 01-16-12 at 02:40.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by RetreatHell View Post
    And WTF is a "fag finger?" The first image that popped into my head after reading that almost made me puke a bit in my mouth, which is not a very pleasant thing to do to someone!


    My eyes are watering from laughing so hard.

    You are right though, it is like the trigger on a carry pistol, we don't want 1.25lb triggers with micro resets on our carry guns, so some of the beautique triggers may no suit all purposes. I need to find a local guy that is running the Super Duper 3-Gun trigger and give it a try before I buy.

    Stay safe.

    Cameron
    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    In case anyone is keeping score, Cameron just won.
    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Salad0892 View Post
    Cameron won again.

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