Mk318 vs 5.56 75gr TAP

[DocGKR]

What leads you to believe the 60 gr PT would be less "dangerous" in the event of a miss indoors compared to the 75 gr OTM?

[Hawkeye M6A3]

What leads you to believe the 60 gr PT would be less "dangerous" in the event of a miss indoors compared to the 75 gr OTM?

That's what I was hoping someone would address as I'm afraid I'm quite out of my league when it comes to all the different types of rifle ammunition.

Where I am most confused is here:

When I think of hollow points, I think of the Federal HST 180gr .40 S&W load I CCW in my Glock, and that load is known for doing well through intermediate barriers and for weight retention.

In the case of the 75gr TAP hollow point, however, it seems the idea is to have ideal penetration and near total fragmentation which seems like a good idea when wanting to limit penetration through barriers and humans, but it stands in stark contrast a heavy handgun hollow point.

That leads me here: what exactly is the difference between the 75gr TAP OTM, and the 40gr, 55gr and 60gr TAP Urban loads? When I look at the ballistics on Hornady's LE website, it appears that the 60gr TAP Urban and 75gr TAP are very similar, with the 60gr TAP offering a bit less penetration.

[Ironman8]

For unobstructed targets, both the loads specified will likely produce similar results--I would be OK using either one in that situation, although for general purpose use, I'd prefer one of the loads listed in the second paragraph here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19881

Doc,

Out of the loads you listed in the second paragraph (5.56 OR .223), which ones are:

a) Readily available to the public
b) Accurate for a precision type application (MOA accuracy for 4-500m and in)

These kind of need to be mutually inclusive since the accuracy won't matter to me if it is unobtainium...I'm thinking the .223 Speer Gold Dot would be it? No? What would be your choice...maybe a top 3?

I have TAP T2 on hand, and the only reason I would keep it for a precision application is because it is so accurate, but if there is a BB load that is at least MOA accurate, I might make a switch.

What leads you to believe the 60 gr PT would be less "dangerous" in the event of a miss indoors compared to the 75 gr OTM?

The T2 that I have on hand is also for HD situations, but it sounds like a miss with T2 would be just as lethal as a miss with a barrier blind load if fired in an HD situation (regardless if there was a barrier involved...such as a wall or furniture)? Can you explain why this would be? Has modern BB loads surpassed the need to have TAP T2 for CQB, HD, room clearing, ect.?

[WS6]

I am aware of a couple LE entry situations the last several years where fragmenting .223 projectiles failed to incapacitate suspects who were behind walls, furniture, and other cover while shooting at LE officers. In those situations, I suspect barrier blind projectiles would have given officers an advantage at ending the fight...

One such case I read about on here a while back (while=1+ years) was an unfortunate officer who dumped 30 rounds of 55gr BST into either a door or windshield of a vehicle (forget which) and was then shot/killed by the perp as his projectiles did absolutely nothing beyond the barrier.

[WS6]

Most of the time the .223/5.56 mm barrier blind bullets are staying in the felons...when they do exit, the projectiles generally are non-aerodynamic in shape and traveling fairly slowly, so they tend to bounce off nearby walls.

What can you tell us about how the new MK318 SOST ammo is doing? I have only read one online account of its usage in the field and the person who inspected the bodies was not too impressed.

[Horsehide]

What can you tell us about how the new MK318 SOST ammo is doing? I have only read one online account of its usage in the field and the person who inspected the bodies was not too impressed.

Not trying to be a smartA$$, but if there were bodies to inspect, I would say the MK318s did their job quite well.

[C4IGrant]

I don't see how home defense differs from an LE urban entry. Most civilians have no need to shoot into vehicles with their AR-15s which is where bonded loads have a distinct advantage over OTMs. I also firmly believe that a fragmenting OTM will cause more soft tissue damage than a bonded bullet that expands, and retains most of its weight. This is critical inside the home where the threat is possibly only feet away.

If I am inside my home and someone is on the outside shooting at me, I will be shooting through glass (FYI).

AR's don't just belong in HD. They can be in your vehicle, property defense, etc.

So it is better to have a bullet that does everything than one that just does somethings.



C4

[WS6]

Not trying to be a smartA$$, but if there were bodies to inspect, I would say the MK318s did their job quite well.

The same could be said for the .22lr in some cases.

[C4IGrant]

Doc,

Out of the loads you listed in the second paragraph (5.56 OR .223), which ones are:

a) Readily available to the public
b) Accurate for a precision type application (MOA accuracy for 4-500m and in)

These kind of need to be mutually inclusive since the accuracy won't matter to me if it is unobtainium...I'm thinking the .223 Speer Gold Dot would be it? No? What would be your choice...maybe a top 3?

I have TAP T2 on hand, and the only reason I would keep it for a precision application is because it is so accurate, but if there is a BB load that is at least MOA accurate, I might make a switch.

Not Doc, but will answer question 1 from a dealer standpoint.

5.56

The SPEER 24455 (http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin...tion&key=24455), BH D556N1 (http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin...ion&key=D556N1) and Hornady 8125N (http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin...tion&key=8125N).

The SPEER 24455 is actually a rare bird and we are lucky to have found some of it. The BH D556N1 is easily obtained, but DAMN if isn't expensive as is the 8125N.

.223

The SPEER 24448 (http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin...tion&key=24448), Federal T1 (http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin...on&key=LE223T1) and T3 (http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin...on&key=LE223T3).

The Federal T1/T3 are great loads, but are very hard to get ahold of and are expensive. The SPEER 24448 is pretty easy to acquire and is priced well I think.



C4

[Watrdawg]

Ther Speer ammunition that Grant mentions, The SPEER 24448 (http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin...tion&key=24448), seems to keep popping up in everyones recommendations. It is relatively inexpensive compared to everything else. The SOST round is also priced competitively with the Speer round. Taking all of that into consideration I've been stocking up on the Speer ammunition since it is so readily available.

As far as BB vs non BB in a Hd situation and worrying about over penetration as others have said it basically isn't an issue. Over penetration that is. I would rather have BB ammunition and not need it than possibly need it an not have it.