AR pistols with 7.5" barrels are bad enough. But an AR pistol with an 11.5" barrel and full rail system? That's full-on retard to me.
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AR pistols with 7.5" barrels are bad enough. But an AR pistol with an 11.5" barrel and full rail system? That's full-on retard to me.
I've benn thinking and thinking and thinking abot this. I can't say why, but man, this really bothered me - what IS the purpose of this gun?
I finally came upon ONE very unlikely yet possible scenario that might take this from full on retard to "he's a little slow".
Now, follow me on this one;
somethign like eighty some percent of all people shot by handguns survive, but something like seventy some percent shot by rifles don't. I would infer this is becasue fo the cartridge/s rifles fire.
Now, in the state of Ohio a loaded magazine is considered the same as a loaded weapon - even if the weapon is not present. Likewise, the CCW license here allows you that loaded weapon, but it specifically only coveres handguns - a loaded rifle mag is still against the law. Therefore, IF a person wanted a"trunk gun" and IF they wanted to be able to keep loaded mags, a, 11.5" barrel "pistol" firing a rifle cartridge would have better ballistics than either a traditional handgun or a 7" "pistol",and not be earth shatteringly deafening like a 7" "pistol" [it would still be damn loud, just not earth shatteringly loud], and would cover them under thier CCW license as a "pistol and magazine/s". A great weapon that would be legal for a SHTF/trunk gun.
Now, there are some issues with this;
-if you got pulled over you'd have to try REAL HARD to convince the cop that this thing was a pistol, because if he's not one of us [and by us I mean hard core AR nut], there is a real good chance that he'll most likely look at it and say "rifle"... or if you're real unlucky, "Short barreled rifle".
-Assuming you pull that off, likewise convincing said cop that the mags are loaded becasue it's part of your CCW rig and that's why you have them stored that way. legal? yes. Will he like it? probably not. Will he then try to find something else to make your life miserable because you've been arguing with him and now he feels he has to make a point? possible. depends on the cop I guess. Is it worth the risk? hmmm.... your call. how bad do you want/need a "trunk gun"?
-Now in this particular case, they made this an "AOW", so technically if you bought it this way, or build one and keep such a thing with a forward grip it would NOT be covered by the CCW license since it;s an AOW and not a pistol, so we're back to square one.
This simply HAS to be one of those 'get around a rule in California" kind of things. I think I've sort of maybe kind of rationalized the 11.5" "pistol" - far fetched, but I could see it - especially for counties that don't sign SBR's or counties/cities that have expressly forbide them [there are a lot in ohio, belvie it or not]. but the whole AOW thing? If it's not a thing skirting a California rule, then it is merely a "we'll do it because we can".
This crap makes my brain hurt. I'm gonna go eat bacon now.
In which case you either print and carry a copy of the ATF letter with you or even better you allow Officer Friendly to arrest you in which case you sue the department.
I don't care if some cop does or doesn't like my suppressors, SBR's or my moustache. If they want to arrest me and or confiscate my stuff they had better ensure that they are 100% in the right or I will be looking to cash in my next lottery ticket.
Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms
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Master Armorer/R&D at SIONICS Weapon Systems- http://sionicsweaponsystems.com
that may be true, but "reason to believe" isn't. They ask to see what's inside the case, you say "no", and then they have reason to believe you are breaking the law and hiding it, so now they can hold you there while they call thier warrant in. It' sno right, but I HAVE seen it done that way, even by some frineds of mine who are cops. IF they don;t find anything, you MIGHT eb able to get somewhere with a alwyer, if you wan tto spend $50K searching to win $10K... but if you DID have loaded rifle amgs in there you're boned... again, unless this was part fo your ..."pistol".
In Pennsylvania the rules are drastically differant, and likewise in Indiana as well s I hear, and this would all be a moot point.
The company that makes these is in California, so I doubt they had mid-west states in mind.
Likewise, making an "other" out of an AOW doesn't change it's position according to the law and CCW - again this only specifically covers handguns. so now matter WHICH configuration they sold it under, it makes no sense, hell a "pistol" ar15 makes more sense - UNLESS thiey are trying to skirt some California law.
Does any member here in live in Cali where they could check on that?
I simply can't figure the purpose of this gun out - it's driving me nuts.
Last edited by steelonsteel; 10-10-11 at 08:35.
This looks like a "technically speaking" bypass that was approved. In California, where there is a technicality there is a way. I doubt there is a serious application for such a beast, other than a legal place to store a short upper until the proverbial SHTF scenario.
"Oh, its a wonderful day! My sun is shining, my birds are chirping, my humongous chicken defeated Elmo." Huxley
Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SemperParatusArms/
Semper Paratus Arms AR15 Armorer Course http://www.semperparatusarms.com/cou...-registration/
M4C Misc. Training and Course Announcements- http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=141
Master Armorer/R&D at SIONICS Weapon Systems- http://sionicsweaponsystems.com
i didnt see a price listed
This is not so. First of all, there is no provision for the meaning of "weapon". There is for "Deadly Weapon", but not "weapon" alone. Regarding transportation in a motor vehicle, the firearm does have to be present. Open carry is legal wether its a loaded handgun, rifle, or loaded magazines for said firearms. As far as concealment goes, there is nothing wrong with carrying only a loaded magazine.
The definition of "Firearm"
(B)(1) “Firearm” means any deadly weapon capable of expelling or propelling one or more projectiles by the action of an explosive or combustible propellant. “Firearm” includes an unloaded firearm, and any firearm that is inoperable but that can readily be rendered operable.
The definition of "Deadly Weapon"
(A) “Deadly weapon” means any instrument, device, or thing capable of inflicting death, and designed or specially adapted for use as a weapon, or possessed, carried, or used as a weapon.
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.11
Note: I would not consider ammo and/or loaded magazines to be a "Deadly Weapon" but there may be a precident set by OH case law.
(5) “Unloaded” means any of the following:
(a) No ammunition is in the firearm in question, and no ammunition is loaded into a magazine or speed loader that may be used with the firearm in question and that is located anywhere within the vehicle in question, without regard to where ammunition otherwise is located within the vehicle in question. For the purposes of division (K)(5)(a) of this section, ammunition held in stripper-clips or in en-bloc clips is not considered ammunition that is loaded into a magazine or speed loader.
(b) With respect to a firearm employing a percussion cap, flintlock, or other obsolete ignition system, when the weapon is uncapped or when the priming charge is removed from the pan.
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.16
Under division (a) it would be illegal to carry loaded mags in your trunk if the firearm is anywhere else in the vehicle. Carrying the loaded mags in your car with no firearm anywhere else in the car is perfectly fine. Likewise, I can carry my AR in a rack in the cab of my truck with the loaded mags in my tool box as the tool box is outside the vehicle.
Last edited by Eric D.; 10-10-11 at 17:23.
B.A.S. Mechanical Engineering Technology
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