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Thread: suppressed 7.5" AR...

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    The can does increase FPS, but not enough IMHO to reliably get a bullet to fragment.


    Cool pics BTW.



    C4

    Wouldn't that be ammunition dependant? For example, Asym Precision loads a 70gr. .223 round that is designed to expand not fragment. According to their data the expansion threshold is 1800 fps. Now, I don't know what it would chrono out of a 7.5" barrel but this sounds like a viable option.
    Product Manager at Magpul Industries

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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Typically speaking, these guns in 5.56 (DI) are somewhat problematic to get to run. So I think many people don't recommend them because of this fact alone.

    Now if you get it in say 9mm, that is a different animal and should run with no issues.

    In the event that you go with a 5.56 and DO plan on using it to shoot people, there are some options that make this package viable. Most of your .223/5.56 needs to be going a certain speed in order to fragment. Out of a 7.5, I don't think they ever get up to speed in order to offer this capability. This doesn't mean that you cannot kill someone dead, but you are basically shooting a .22 magnum.

    With that said, if you go with a barrier blind round (SPEER 24448/24455, Federal T1/T3, Hornady 8125N, etc) these do not need speed to do their job. So no matter the length of the barrel or the distance of the target (within reason) you will be able put someone down.

    Good luck.



    C4
    This is almost exactly what I was going to post, but was going to suggest a different round. Grant is right thogh that for an AR that "might" get used in a defensive situation, I would want a barrier blind load. All the above loads are great, but the load that I was going to suggest was the BH 5.56 TSX 50gr load. It is lighter AND in 5.56, which will allow it to travel a little faster, thus increasing your "effective range", while still being a lethal option. Look up the terminal ballistics. Only downside is cost. I was thinking of a 7.5" build for a "trunk gun" with this round...hope I'm not an idiot...
    Last edited by Ironman8; 10-13-11 at 14:57.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dozer View Post
    Wouldn't that be ammunition dependant? For example, Asym Precision loads a 70gr. .223 round that is designed to expand not fragment. According to their data the expansion threshold is 1800 fps. Now, I don't know what it would chrono out of a 7.5" barrel but this sounds like a viable option.
    I believe that if it is an expanding round (instead of fragmenting), then it is more than likely a barrier blind load like what Grant was talking about. I may be wrong about this particular round, so I would wait for Grant to chime in.

    I still stand by my suggestion above though

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dozer View Post
    Wouldn't that be ammunition dependant? For example, Asym Precision loads a 70gr. .223 round that is designed to expand not fragment. According to their data the expansion threshold is 1800 fps. Now, I don't know what it would chrono out of a 7.5" barrel but this sounds like a viable option.
    Yes, but typically any AR barrel is going to give you enough FPS to expand out to say 100yds.



    C4

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironman8 View Post
    This is almost exactly what I was going to post, but was going to suggest a different round. Grant is right thogh that for an AR that "might" get used in a defensive situation, I would want a barrier blind load. All the above loads are great, but the load that I was going to suggest was the BH 5.56 TSX 50gr load. It is lighter AND in 5.56, which will allow it to travel a little faster, thus increasing your "effective range", while still being a lethal option. Look up the terminal ballistics. Only downside is cost. I was thinking of a 7.5" build for a "trunk gun" with this round...hope I'm not an idiot...
    That is another great load, but DAMN it is expensive.


    C4

  6. #46
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    Thanks for the replies. Ultimately if the purpose of this build is such then ammo cost should be factored into the decision making before beginning the project.
    Product Manager at Magpul Industries

    This is a personal account linked to a personal e-mail. Company affiliation and titles are provided purely for transparency requirements of the host site. Although factual company information may be shared through this account, any opinions expressed are solely those of the account holder, and not necessarily those of Magpul Industries or subsidiaries.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd.K View Post
    It might be interesting to compare the OAL and sound of a 10.5" with one of the newer mini cans to a 7.5" with a regular size can.
    Since you provided the barrel, I'll see what i can do this weekend and post some video and pics...along with some chrono'd results with different ammo to try and help....

    I can't run the M4-S on my 10.5" switch block upper due to rail clearance and mounts but can compare with an AAC Ranger against the M4-S and M4-M on the 8.5"...

    Quick pic before final assembly:
    [IMG][/IMG]

    Ready for testing:
    [IMG][/IMG]

    Specs for testing:
    Noveske 8.5" barrel
    Noveske bolt
    LMT Enhanced carrier
    Ops Inc muzzle brake and m4 collar
    NIB upper receiver
    Spikes 9" BAR rail
    Accepts Ops Inc M4-S and M4-M silencers

    [IMG][/IMG]
    Left to right: M4-S, M4-m, Ranger

  8. #48
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    I've shot a few super shorties and they never did much for me. Most of the time they simply didn't work reliably enough to be more than a novelty. Suppressed they were nothing but gas in the face. Until a few weeks ago I would have had completely zero interest in a 7.5" AR platform in 5.56. Then I got the opportunity to shoot a very good 7.5" gun that really worked! Mag dump after mag after mag, this thing was a house on fire. Not sure I am ready to run out and build one, but the lil' guy could have a place in a niche role to fill. Small & light, it will fit in a 'pack real slick. I'd feel totally good toting this particular rifle if I had to face-shoot bad guys up close. And, it is a hoot just to play around with too!

    This is not my mini-rig, but I got to spend a little time in the shoot house with it. The carbine belongs to a gun-rag writer and is basically a T&E platform: Spikes, BCM, FailZero coated guts, Insight MRDS, and a braked OPS M4-S on a FA lower. It ran like a raped ape all weekend - totally dry. This gun didn't have a drop of lube anywhere on it. It sounded pretty much like a 16" with a A2 FH but it is a hell of a lot handier. Definitely NOT safe without ears. But, it wasn't blowing my doors off either. Less offensive than my unsuppressed 11.5" gun. I wasn't forced to eat carbon fouled gas and as a lefty I really appreciated that. Yea, me like.

    I'm not sure I would ever have a clearly defined need for a gun like this, but I wouldn't say they're tits on a chicken either. Let your mission drive your gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave L. View Post
    I'm reminded of my lefthandedness every time I shoot a belt-fed with short sleeves on.

  9. #49
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    By the time you get down to a damn 7 inch barrel with 5.56, you'd almost be better off with a UMP or MP5 type SMG. Its even more compact, more reliable, easier to suppress, and not a whole lot less effective.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wicked View Post
    It sounded pretty much like a 16" with a A2 FH but it is a hell of a lot handier. Definitely NOT safe without ears. But, it wasn't blowing my doors off either. Less offensive than my unsuppressed 11.5" gun.
    So what you're saying is the 7.5" With a suppressor was as loud as a 16" without? Wow! I have shot a 7.5" without one and it sure as shit was loud, but I guess I never thought it would still be that loud with a suppressor.

    I definitely agree with those who said how handy they are. Perhaps if you're purpose is to sling large amounts of lead downrange in a close environment they could be adequate.

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