Opinion on right to left lateral movement...

[a0cake]

...for right handed shooters.

Most instructors would say to place the right foot in front of the left when moving right to left laterally (for right handed shooters). An example of this movement would be the way Mr. Lamb does it at 20 seconds in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q55MH...feature=relmfu

Now, here's a clip of me doing similar movement, kicking some empty bottles around and trying to keep them moving. Keep in mind I have 600 rounds of 7.62 link in my pack, am wearing plates, and have 3 quarts of water on me as well. It's not so easy to be light on your feet with that load. Train like you fight. Anyway, I've caught a small amount of flack from certain instructors for doing it this way, but I see nothing wrong with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WybmrnAvmYg

How do you personally prefer to do it?

[Failure2Stop]

It is a lot easier to trip/collide when moving backward, especially if you are highly threat-focused as usually happens when engaged at compressed distances than it is to move toes forward.

It's hard to convince someone that they are doing something wrong if it is working for them, but I believe you are introducing a higher probability of failure with that method under real-world application.

That being said, there is always the possibility of having to retreat while firing, but that's more of a "gotta do it" than "choose to do it".
Hitting to the strong side when moving toward the support side is difficult, and requires dedicated training/practice to become and maintain proficiency. If a shoulder transition is not possible, I prefer to just bend more at the knees and cant the upper body toward the support side.

A fouled threshold is something to be avoided at all costs, and unexpectedly finding yourself tits-up in a close range gun-fight isn't much better.

ETA- It also makes it much more difficult to transition from the initial threat to a threat in the direction of travel if one pops up.

[a0cake]

It is a lot easier to trip/collide when moving backward, especially if you are highly threat-focused as usually happens when engaged at compressed distances than it is to move toes forward.

It's hard to convince someone that they are doing something wrong if it is working for them, but I believe you are introducing a higher probability of failure with that method under real-world application.

As you said, it may perhaps be a matter of me being stubborn, but I do disagree with heel led movement being more prone to tripping.

On rocky or uneven terrain, I think there's a greater chance of digging your toe into the ground, getting it wedged, and falling flat on your face than there is with a heel led movement. With the way I'm moving, I believe I'm more likely to stay vertical if my foot comes into contact with an obstacle because I'll feel it underneath my foot rather than "stub my toe" on it.

I also feel that body position / geometry is more on my side when shooting at extreme right and left angles.

But, your point is taken and I appreciate the response. I'm going to spend more time on this, trying it both ways, to see what ends up working out best.

I have a feeling that I'll stick with the current method because it feels more natural to me. But as you know, appropriate actions can sometimes be counterintuitive.

[rob_s]

Perhaps not the group desired to observe, but one only has to spend enough time in the shooting sports to see that walking backwards is where the falls happen. Trying to do so expeditiously only makes things worse. I can't imagine carrying all that stuff helps.

[Failure2Stop]

As you said, it may perhaps be a matter of me being stubborn, but I do disagree with heel led movement being more prone to tripping.

If you trip wile moving forward you can easily catch yourself with your knee. Do it moving backward and the first thing that's going to hit is your ass or your hands.

I've fought, trained, and worked inside enclosures enough to trip on stuff every now and then, same in the rocks, woods, and jungles.

Like I said, I don't expect you to change what you believe to be good based on a disagreement with a random dude on the 'net, but it is much easier to fall when encountering the unexpected when moving backward than when moving forward, and that probability increases when visual focus is impeded and pulled away from the movement path.

I'm not trying to haunt this thread, and I don't want you to think that I have some hard-on to prove you wrong, so I'm going to just leave it alone for a while to let others weigh in.

[a0cake]

Perhaps not the group desired to observe, but one only has to spend enough time in the shooting sports to see that walking backwards is where the falls happen. Trying to do so expeditiously only makes things worse. I can't imagine carrying all that stuff helps.

IMO, Kyle Lamb's footwork starting at 20 seconds in his video is just asking for a rolled ankle or a fall when loaded with gear. I'm not completely discounting common convention, which is to do it like he does, but I still don't believe it's better for me.

Hate to sound like that guy who will stick to his guns despite evidence to the contrary...but at some level, especially in regard to something as basic as individual movement from one point to another, you've got to do what feels right.

Forcing an unnatural movement, which crossing my right leg in front of the left absolutely is for me, just because "the book" says it's more stable, just doesn't seem right.

I'm by no means a beginner or amateur when it comes to this, but there's obviously always something that can be learned or done better. This may be one of those things. Continued training focus on this movement will answer that question for me. Thanks for the reply.

[sboza]

That being said, there is always the possibility of having to retreat while firing, but that's more of a "gotta do it" than "choose to do it".
Hitting to the strong side when moving toward the support side is difficult, and requires dedicated training/practice to become and maintain proficiency. If a shoulder transition is not possible, I prefer to just bend more at the knees and cant the upper body toward the support side.

I'm with f2s, extra knee bend and rotate your torso. I also agree that moving backwards is, as f2s put it, a "gotta do it" kind of thing. Avoid it if possible.

Not to mention, most of the time you will be better off running to your next cover rather than shooting and moving at a pace at which you can effectively shoot laterally. Being required to shoot on the move is rare outside of cqb, having to shoot laterally is even more rare. This is my "opinion," for the rob_s's of the world who need neat proofs for everything. I had a class with MSG Howe a while ago and he mentioned that he never "serviced" a bad guy on the move. I guess I'm just saying, train hard but I don't think you need to obsess over it.

My opinion, but I would say:
1) Run to your next cover if possible, especially if you have buddies who are actively supressing fire. And frankly, even if you don't in my opinion.

2) A f2s said, switch shoulders and fire laterally.

3) if you can't switch shoulders, use the extra knee bend and rotate your upper body. If you reach a point that you can no longer address the threat by rotating your torso and the threat still needs some loving, again my opinion, quickly eye forward terrain and spin backwards and continue shooting as you moving backwards until your threat has been dealt with. Or, again, screw the fancy shooting and run to your next cover.

Practice it, practice it some more, but don't get hung up on it. And nothing wrong with training to shoot while moving backwards because that may well be your first instinct when you come under fire, especially in a defensive role where you're on your own.

Just my $.02.

[Dave_M]

I'm a huge fan of the, 'shuffle' method when it comes to lateral movement. However, it isn't always the fastest way to move--if you need to cover distance quickly, it can certainly be awkward if not practiced frequently.

Moving right to left, even on the strong shoulder, if one has to cross legs, I recommend the, 'in front' method over behind for reasons already given in this thread. Also, I most always advocate never putting your feet behind your LOS whenever possible.

Like others have said, running backwards is a situation to be avoided whenever possible for reasons which remain obvious.

[sboza]

Odd double post.

[rob_s]

Hate to sound like that guy who will stick to his guns despite evidence to the contrary...but at some level, especially in regard to something as basic as individual movement from one point to another, you've got to do what feels right.

Forcing an unnatural movement, which crossing my right leg in front of the left absolutely is for me, just because "the book" says it's more stable, just doesn't seem right.

The thing we always have to ask ourselves is, does the alternate method "feel wrong" because it is wrong, or simply because we haven't done it enough?

Something else I'll add to the discussion, I've actually run some experiments with the shooters that come out to our drills nights. We average 15-30 shooters of varied experience levels. Almost across the board they do better, move faster, are more stable, and get better hits if they shoot from the leading shoulder in whatever direction they are headed. Left shoulder when moving right-left.