Cold weather sleeping bag recommendations

[LHQuattro]

I'm a pretty cold sleeper, so here's how I do it.

Wiggys 20 degree bag, XPed Synmat 7 basic pad, issue goretext bivy bag, Wild Things puffy jacket and pants (Army equivalent of the USMC "happy suit"), down booties with fresh dry wool socks, and a couple of hot nalgene bottles.

That combo does me fine down below 0 degrees. Again, I'm a pretty cold sleeper. Using a normal pad and sleeping naked (or in light long underwear) I would always be cold and need a much warmer sleeping bag than what the bag was rated for. Like a -20 bag for a +10F night. Not anymore.

The key things that allow me to go much colder than the bag rating are using a really good pad (My XPed has an R value of 4...vs like R1 for my old thermarest) and wearing the puffy suit. The puffy suit is basically a wearable sleeping bag in itself.

Its been great to save all that room in my pack by not using a complete MSS. I figure I'm saving 4lbs of weight and maybe 1000 cubic inches (?) in my pack...and sleeping warmer to boot!

[urbantroy]

I have to agree with Artic 1, Goretex in certain climates just is not your best option. I guide and outfit up here in Canada and I very rarely use Gortex gear. We use just about wool everything from pants to coats and underwear. For our sleeping systems pending on our situation we use the military type layering system. Or if weight isn't a factor I will use a good Asolo cold weather bag and a ranger blanket with a cowboy bed roll ( boat canvas made bedroll with storm flap). When I served they were just coming out with the gortex biv bags and I will say they were nice and worked well but you did wake up with a damp bag. That being said it doesn't matter what bag you use in a cold weather situation. If you cannot get near a heat source after 3 + days you will have a damp bag no matter what. Everything needs a chance to breathe and dry out. IMHO.

After speaking with a Gore-Tex rep, going through a live demo, and using my own experiences I'd say you're spot on. Gore-Tex requires a specific set of circumstances to function optimally. I've had a lot of success using the MSS with Gore-Tex bivy, but YMMV.

Also check out some hybrid merino wool/synthetic base layer garments such as the North Face 'summit series' base layers. The synthetic part of the garment has a similar particle treatment to Patagonia's Capilene for moisture management while the merino wool portion does it's job well.

[Tortuga]

Also does anyone Reccomend using a hammock in conjunction with any sleep system? Is that better then staying off the ground? Or does it get colder since air can flow underneath you?

Yes, you'll have a constant flow of cool air below you. True, you can do things to help mitigate that, but why handicap your insulated habitat?

[M4Fundi]

Don't know about Norway, but the rest of the world snow is a great insulator and will keep you at a constant ambient temperature if you can get into it and just keep an insulating layer between you and the snow. Hanging in a hammock with cold air under you is going to kill you. Repeat KILL you. Stay out of the wind! Sled dogs and most wild animals in severe winter climates use the snow as an insulator. Sled dogs sleep in snow, ice caves are good, wind is bad, when I go ice climbing I stick all of my beer and water bottles under the snow and they do not freeze during the day as the snow keeps them insulated. Leave them in the wind and they quickly are Barley & Hoppcicles! Don't sleep in the wind and become a Barley&Hoppcicle!

If you really want to learn about cold weather camping go to an alpine of ice climbing website.

My hidden horde

My perfectly chilled precious having survived 14 hours under the snow 5am to 7pm and not frozen

[Arctic1]

Well, I did not recommend using a hammock during winter did I?

There is also a difference between insulating something, as in you packing your beer in snow, and heat loss through conduction.

Heat loss from conduction is quite significant when lying on top of the snow. It is reduced when using a sleeping mat, but it can still be a factor if the mat is too thin.

Building a shelter a few inches off the ground with logs, between two trees, insulating the "bed" with conifer branches is A LOT better than lying directly on the snow as there is no heat loss from conduction, and very little from convection as you are insulated by the conifer branches.

Building a snow cave, or other snow shelter, that's where the insulating properties of snow comes to life. Ref your example with the beer. Another example is small rodents living close to the ground during winter, under the snow. Much warmer there, than above the snow.

[M4Fundi]

Your info is invaluable Arctic1...I thought you were suggesting something cot like... as even lifting off of the snow if you have air "moving" under you it is still stripping you of warmth. You as you have said correctly need a barrier against convection, but air movement will be as bad or worse than convection. Now a barrier and trapped air is best which is the correct way to use snow and ice.

I am completely intrigued now if a properly insulated Hennessy Hammoch can be made alpine winter worthy in high winds. It is actually cold here now (not real cold) but worth maybe me giving it a 35 degree weather test. I think this week I will try and rig my Hennessy Hammoch with a Thermarest and a Zero Degree bag and hang it in the wind and see how it fairs. Finding some wind might be difficult.

[LMT Shooter]

I have very little experience with other brands, but I love my Wiggys bags. I've had the FTRSS for years, no issues, very warm & comfy. I feel like I sleep a lot drier than I have in other bags, too. Being American made never hurts, either.

[Arctic1]

Your info is invaluable Arctic1...I thought you were suggesting something cot like... as even lifting off of the snow if you have air "moving" under you it is still stripping you of warmth. You as you have said correctly need a barrier against convection, but air movement will be as bad or worse than convection. Now a barrier and trapped air is best which is the correct way to use snow and ice.

I am completely intrigued now if a properly insulated Hennessy Hammoch can be made alpine winter worthy in high winds. It is actually cold here now (not real cold) but worth maybe me giving it a 35 degree weather test. I think this week I will try and rig my Hennessy Hammoch with a Thermarest and a Zero Degree bag and hang it in the wind and see how it fairs. Finding some wind might be difficult.

Just to clarify, heat loss via conduction is from directly touching something (transfer of heat from a warm body to a cold body). Heat loss from convection is mostly from wind (displacement of warm air next to body and inside the clothing by cold outside air).

The two remaining heat loss mechanisms are radiation and evaporation.

Having some cold air flowing under you is no problem. You actually want some passive convection in your shelter, to prevent condensation from forming.

Also, if you have a windproof sleeping bag or bivvy bag over your sleeping bag or a tent for that matter, heat loss from convection is no problem. If you lack protective sleeping systems, like tents, sleeping mats, sleeping bags etc and you have to improvise, then I agree that digging in would be the best option to reduce the effects of heat loss from convection. Insulate yourself from the gound via conifer branches, or whatever is available.

The last mechanism to prevent heat loss from convection is of course a heat source; fire, heated rocks, field stove etc.

The coldest temp I have slept in, without a shelter, is -30C. Old issue sleeping mat (about 10mm thick), old issue sleeping bag and I was wearing Woolpower long johns and overshirt, plus wool socks. There was no wind. I wasn't freezing, it was quite comfortable, although not warm.

[Jack-O]

Your info is invaluable Arctic1...I thought you were suggesting something cot like... as even lifting off of the snow if you have air "moving" under you it is still stripping you of warmth. You as you have said correctly need a barrier against convection, but air movement will be as bad or worse than convection. Now a barrier and trapped air is best which is the correct way to use snow and ice.

I am completely intrigued now if a properly insulated Hennessy Hammoch can be made alpine winter worthy in high winds. It is actually cold here now (not real cold) but worth maybe me giving it a 35 degree weather test. I think this week I will try and rig my Hennessy Hammoch with a Thermarest and a Zero Degree bag and hang it in the wind and see how it fairs. Finding some wind might be difficult.

I'll state from experience at close to 20F that if you do not have a ground pad or some sort of non compressible insulation under you while in a hammock that even a FTRSS bag system will not keep you warm on the bottom side. the insulation compresses and heat pours out of you. This is true even at warmer temps like 40 or 50.

Good news is that a lightweight solution is that reflective bubble wrap you can buy at the hardware store for insulating floors and water heaters and stuff is super light and works pretty well for most temps you'll be out in.

[M4Fundi]

Just to clarify, heat loss via conduction is from directly touching something (transfer of heat from a warm body to a cold body). Heat loss from convection is mostly from wind (displacement of warm air next to body and inside the clothing by cold outside air).

The two remaining heat loss mechanisms are radiation and evaporation.

Having some cold air flowing under you is no problem. You actually want some passive convection in your shelter, to prevent condensation from forming.

Also, if you have a windproof sleeping bag or bivvy bag over your sleeping bag or a tent for that matter, heat loss from convection is no problem. If you lack protective sleeping systems, like tents, sleeping mats, sleeping bags etc and you have to improvise, then I agree that digging in would be the best option to reduce the effects of heat loss from convection. Insulate yourself from the gound via conifer branches, or whatever is available.

The last mechanism to prevent heat loss from convection is of course a heat source; fire, heated rocks, field stove etc.

The coldest temp I have slept in, without a shelter, is -30C. Old issue sleeping mat (about 10mm thick), old issue sleeping bag and I was wearing Woolpower long johns and overshirt, plus wool socks. There was no wind. I wasn't freezing, it was quite comfortable, although not warm.

Thanks for the clarification. I knew I was using the wrong word, but was too tired the other night to pull "conduction" out of the back of my brain

I have slept the minus 40F a few times and don't recommend it. My dog really would get pissed when I made him do it. He was fine hunting in minus 30 when he was moving, but sleeping in it made him pretty grumpy. I had a Bibler Fitzroy Tent, TRest, Western Mountaineering minus 30 or Zero Degree Bag with silk liner. I swear by silk liners for everything. The Toddtex in the Bibler keeps the condensation OK, of course anything slick on the floor gets wet especially with a dog in the tent