M&P vs G19 Parte Deux: Photo Essay

[Erick Gelhaus]

Blackscot-
Nice job. Thank you for the time & effort.

[John Fettes]

Many of the folks I watched shooting the 1911 pattern pistol with their index finger of the non-dominant hand on their trigger guard lost contact with the trigger guard during the weapon's cycle. They would then have to re-establish their grip after each shot.

This is worth what you are paying for it, but I think that you can establish a stronger grip of the pistol by having that index finger under the trigger guard locking the grip of the dominant hand.

Bill Wilson checkered the front of the trigger guard on my old IPSC blaster 25 + years ago. I abandoned putting my index finger on it many years ago.

John

[blackscot]

I must be retarded because that's how I've been shooting handguns for a very long time. I first started doing it with the 1911 because it just went naturally with a high-hand hold, thumbs up on the slide stop and safety.


Is there any particular reason the technique is discounted?

Well Matthew, for most folks it just doesn't seem to work very well. The weak-hand finger has to be extended beyond the point where it is really doing anything to reduce recoil, and separating it from the other fingers only reduces the effectiveness of the weak-hand's overall support function.

I am, however, the most vocal advocate that one size does not fit all, and that everyone needs to find and objectively test new ideas to make their own conclusions. This is to me part of what makes shooting such an interesting endeavor.

One point I will insist on though, is that the whole idea of trying to reduce recoil -- i.e. fighting it -- is a futile approach. The gun will recoil as much or as little as it needs to, which the shooter needs to accept and learn to move with rather than against.

.....you can establish a stronger grip of the pistol by having that index finger under the trigger guard locking the grip of the dominant hand.....

This is widely recognized as the most effective technique, and is currently taught by probably any reputable instruction program.

It also happens to be what works best for me personally. Yes, the gun does recoil -- I've learned to accept that -- but both of my hands stay put during the process. Most importantly, the gun returns exactly to its pre-fired position and ready for the follow-up shot (given a proper bore/forearm axis alignment as previously discussed).

[C4IGrant]

Another GREAT reason to not put your finger on the trigger guard is because if you have a weapon mounted light, you cannot put your finger there any more.

So you might as well stop doing it.



C4

[sigmundsauer]

Another GREAT reason to not put your finger on the trigger guard is because if you have a weapon mounted light, you cannot put your finger there any more.

So you might as well stop doing it.



C4

I can think of no good reason why placing your finger on the trigger guard is bad form. I did it for many years with very good results and never experienced a down side to doing so. However, I see no advantage to doing so either. I stopped in recent years because i found it unnecessary and have not missed it. What felt natural years ago, feels a bit more "complicated" to acquire now.

Tim

[the1911fan]

I can think of no good reason why placing your finger on the trigger guard is bad form.
Tim

I have been to a more than a few training classes with top level trainers and none advocate it. That's a clue

[C4IGrant]

I can think of no good reason why placing your finger on the trigger guard is bad form. I did it for many years with very good results and never experienced a down side to doing so. However, I see no advantage to doing so either. I stopped in recent years because i found it unnecessary and have not missed it. What felt natural years ago, feels a bit more "complicated" to acquire now.

Tim

Poor grip is the reason.


C4

[C4IGrant]

I have been to a more than a few training classes with top level trainers and none advocate it. That's a clue

Yes it is.


C4

[sigmundsauer]

Yes it is.


C4

C4 and 1911fan,

What makes it poor, may I inquire? Can you articulate why it's poor rather than just citing that no one advocates it. I'm all ears.

Poor grip? Yes, maybe for some, but I'd wager that it has far more to do with an individual's hand and the weapon being used than simply concluding as a blanket statement that it doesn't work.

I surmise that many instructors don't advocate it (for the same reasons I don't as a general rule) it simply offers no significant advantages over more conventional grips. Some instructors are simply dogmatic.

Tim

[Stickman]

I’ve also never really been comfortable with the ridged and serrated trigger face.

According to Glock, its done for import points due to its size. The serrated trigger with trigger bar can be easily and cheaply replaced, and its one of the few changes I made on my G19. If you like the G19, it may be something you want to look into.