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Thread: Colt SCW

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by BH321 View Post
    MK18, I understand where you are coming from. However, piston guns are designed for a niche market much like the HK416C and SCW. Piston guns do have advantages in weapons that have super short barrel lengths or when a suppressor is involved. They do have a tendency to have a fairly different recoil impulse (varying on design) and can be much heavier than your standard direct impingement design. The fact is however, that just because they do not fit your needs, does not mean they are for the retard market. I don't see either of us driving around town in a passenger bus, but they serve an undeniable purpose (The transit of large numbers of people). Piston guns and PDWs aren't much different.
    This argument has been waged a gagillion times. It has never been won and never will be. At this point you may want to consider a retrograde op...

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by pedropcola View Post
    I bought a piston gun, PWS, because I wanted to play with one and see for myself what the gripes/benefits could be. I wouldn't buy a Colt piston (don't need one is all) but I would love to hear about someone wringing one out.

    It is the litany of "anyone who makes a piston is going for the retard market" commentary that is beneath you. Or maybe, it's not. For EVERYTHING in human history that has ever been improved upon, there has ALWAYS been some know-it-all aping the old line, "solution in search of a problem". Probably the most overused expression of all time.

    There is only one way to find out if something can be improved upon and guess what? It is not by arguing about it on the internet. I hope a bunch of manufacturers and end users make and use all manner of piston designs and through trial, error, and experience figure out if they are worth the effort. My bet is that once a commonality of design is decided upon, they will be a very good option. But, just like your opinion, its worth exactly what you paid for it, zero.

    Back to the original post. I don't know but I certainly would like to hear/see more about this development. Any interesting links would be appreciated, thanks.

    Pete
    Thanks Pete for a breath of fresh air
    It is nice to read an open minded opinion instead of this old time crap.
    I posted my last opinion and I was told I just don't get it, well I still don't. I enjoy the piston rifles that I have.
    IRAQGUNZ, your being open minded about a piston gun surprises the hell out of me after all the crap I've read from you about the subject, maybe there's hope for some of you.
    Ok guys let it fly

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Striker View Post
    Why? Are you saying that the HK416 or the LMT MRP Piston is for, as you put it, "the retard market"? I'm not saying the Colt is a great gun. I don't really know because I've never shot one and I don't know anyone that has. It might be the worst AR type rifle ever or it might be the piston rifle that solves every problem or it might be neither.

    I like the Magpul loaded 6920. If I wanted a rifle with the Magpul furniture on it, I would consider this rifle. Like most people, I want to get my rifle complete the way I want it if at all possible.

    I think Colt is trying to offer things that the public might want. It makes good business sense to me and it's not hurting the product; in fact, in some ways I think it enhances it. Also, as I recall, weren't many on this site as well as other sites complaining about how Colt doesn't pay attention to the civilian market. Apparently they are now.
    Don't take it personally... MarkM is very much a purist. If it has a rail, and doesn't shoot musket balls, it's for faggots.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by fletchman View Post
    I posted my last opinion and I was told I just don't get it, well I still don't. I enjoy the piston rifles that I have.
    IRAQGUNZ, your being open minded about a piston gun surprises the hell out of me after all the crap I've read from you about the subject, maybe there's hope for some of you.
    Ok guys let it fly
    When you were told you don't get it, you should have stopped to contemplate why instead of trolling for trouble in a three year old thread. We all enjoy our piston driven ARs because they are all piston driven
    Last edited by MistWolf; 08-15-13 at 13:17.
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  5. #35
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    Colt is having better ideas than they have had in many years. Some of them will be flops... others, like the SOCOM M4s, were smart.

  6. #36
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    I read a few of the posts on page 1 and just wanted to add my deuce.

    At the end of the day, Colt is a business that needs to sustain itself. Regardless of how much we think they make off of government contracts, or how much margin they make off each rifle on the civilian market, it is still their business at the end of the day that needs to be sustained. If they want to attempt to move into a market for civilians, be it mall ninja, tacticool plinker, or internet operator, they have to do what is best to sustain their company's growth financially.

    You can be the most purist, best, top of the your game company. If you are as much of an entrepreneur and innovator as you were when your company first started, you are going to be intelligent enough to go cater to as wide of a market as you can.

    Is there going to be compromises? Who knows. One would hope not, but if it's not for you, then it's not for you. Colt has to make the best decision they can to keep their company growing. Otherwise they will just be "another AR" company, even if most consider them the end all be all.

  7. #37
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    I do prefer the DI on the Armalite as that was the way it was invented,but one thing I do enjoy pointing out to people:

    Next to the M16/M4/AR there has been,I think if I read right,three DI guns put out in mass the Ljungman,MAS 49/56,and the Armalite;of those the MAS is the only one next to the Armalite that's seen any use of note.

    The piston guns are the most used and designed along with a few recoil operated ones...so really the DI system isn't that widespread.

    On topic:I suppose if someone is going to get a piston AR right Colt would be one.
    "That which is dead can eternal lie,and with strange aeons even death may die"~Lovecraft

  8. #38
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Moltke View Post
    Colt is a company. The fact that they are targeting market segments that they previously haven't just means that they are doing what companies do - pursue profit.

    $1k from one guy as opposed to the next, isn't important.

    If Colt begins to cut corners, or use junk, or mislead people into buying their stuff; then Colt will lose me as a loyal customer.

    If they continue to produce genuinely good and robust products, and begin to offer aftermarket furniture, new designs like the SCW and piston rifle into their product line; then I'd say Colt that's fine.

    I think that a little ingenuity, creativity and marketing is a good thing.

    But I hear what you're saying, they're going to have to be careful about how they manage their company image.
    It's do or die for Colt right now. They lost the Army M4 contract, so they are scrambling to fill the backlog with US commercial sales and international military/LE sales.

    That's why you see Colt orienting more towards the commercial market now. I mentioned necessity as one reason. The other is that they just ditched a very anti-gun shareholder (Blackstone) who, since 2003, didn't want Colt (Defense) to sell blasters to the civilian market. With Colt Defense and Colt's Manufacturing back together - all the friction and the dysfunctional commercial distribution arrangements between two previously separate companies might go away, which is good for us.

    Cut Colt some slack here. Late to the game, but better than never.

    Both the legacy Colt Defense and Colt's manufacturing companies (now under one roof again) need to have some new product. The 1911 design is over 100 years old. The Eugene stoner model dates back to 1957. Right now Colt can't sell rifles to civilians in NY, CT, and soon MD and maybe CA. After Colt fires a few accountants, maybe they can hire a few engineers and pump out some new stuff that isn't just a variation on a theme. Right now Colt has more accountants than engineers. S&W is hitting it out of the park with a single stack concealable pistol (the shield) and it sounds Glock isn't too far behind. Ruger is probably selling more LCP's and LCR's in a month than the rifle units Colt makes in a year. Colt shitcanned its high-quality AK project after Sandy Hook. So, where's Colt?

    In the meantime, it's interesting that the CEO said Colt was looking at possibly bringing back some "older" product - would you guys buy a Hartford Horsey retro A1?
    Last edited by 30 cal slut; 08-15-13 at 16:28.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by fletchman View Post
    Thanks Pete for a breath of fresh air
    It is nice to read an open minded opinion instead of this old time crap.
    I posted my last opinion and I was told I just don't get it, well I still don't. I enjoy the piston rifles that I have.
    IRAQGUNZ, your being open minded about a piston gun surprises the hell out of me after all the crap I've read from you about the subject, maybe there's hope for some of you.
    Ok guys let it fly
    If you like Piston guns, good for you. I do as well. It is called the HK 416.

    With that said, I have zero need for one. Why? Because I don't shoot a FA SBR with a suppressor on it (which is really the only reason to get into QUALITY piston AR's).

    A DI gun will cover all your bases, be less money, softer shooting, more accurate, lighter, easier to repair and allow you to use any aftermarket rail you want.


    C4

  10. #40
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    I am sworn to secrecy but know how many ARs Colt makes every month. It is not in any way insignificant.

    ETA: The only piston gun I'm really interested in is the PWS. I like the recoil impulse of long stroke pistons.
    Last edited by RyanB; 08-15-13 at 16:36.

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