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Thread: Cold Weather, the good, the bad and the frigid

  1. #31
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    Some highlights from Sinister's links:

    These excerpts are the most valid information from the documents Sinister listed, much of the information is repeated verbatim through several of the texts, it is interesting to note that the vast majority of them are from 1984-2000. Still, some good information.

    1) Weapons are also affected by common conditions of the cold regions and the resulting effects on material properties, e.g. increased viscosity of lubricants and hydraulic fluids causing slow response, accumulation of frozen moisture, breakage of cable insulation, and failure of seals. Additional problems include:
    (1) Propellants in munitions may have a slower burn rate because of the slowed chemical reactions.
    (2) Ice fog resulting from the exhaust from weapons firing reduces visibility in the immediate area and may prevent tracking.

    2) Small arms, optical systems, and other equipment used, worn, or carried by the Soldier can be adversely effect by the cold environment. Besides the hazards to Soldier health caused by the cold, equipment may be difficult to use because of material changes in the cold. Some examples follow.
    (1) Seals on NBC protective masks may harden and fail and moisture from warm breath may freeze on lenses, eye pieces, and optical equipment.
    (2) Exposed metal surfaces on small arms require more frequent application of smaller amounts of lubrication to remain functional and condensation forms on weapons when they are taken from the cold environment into a warm shelter. Condensation that is not dried can refreeze when the weapon is taken back into the cold temperatures

    http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc...f&AD=ADA499912

    3) A visibility problem can be
    encountered when a weapon with excessive muzzle blast is fired in
    temperatures below -3OOF. As the round leaves the weapon, the water vapor
    in the air is crystallized, creating ice particles that procure ice fog and follow
    the path of the projectile obstructing the gunner’s vision along his line of fire.
    When faced with this problem, fire at a slower rate and relocate to
    supplementary firing positions.

    4) Ammunition. Cold weather can materially affect the performance of
    ammunition. The ammunition should be kept at the same temperature as
    the weapon and should be carried in bandoleers. Additional ammunition
    should be carried in the pockets of the outer parka. Clips and magazines must
    be cleaned of all oil and preservatives and checked frequently. All ice and
    condensation must be removed.
    a. Burning Rate. The burning rate of various types of propellent
    charges is affected by severe cold, weapons zeroed under temperate conditions
    will fire low when firing ammunition that has been exposed to the frigid
    temperatures. This is a result of the propellent charge burning slower due to
    the cold.

    http://coldweatherclothing.info/Refe...pub/p-1053.pdf

    5) Lubrication of weapon systems is another concern when operating at cold temperatures. It is better to fire a weapon dry in the cold than it is to use an improper lubrication that will cause a malfunction during firing. Typically this is not a problem since, CLP does not freeze until it reaches –35° F. LAW (Lubricant, Arctic, Weapon) should be ordered for all weapons and used when range between 0° F to –65° F. History proves that other lubricants have been used effectively in extreme cold weather conditions when LAW was not available to fighting units. Some examples include graphite, kerosene and diesel fuel mix, and winter weight motor oil.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/9702656/Us...Weather-Manual

  2. #32
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    On the Korean DMZ in the old days we had TVS-7 hand-held thermals and TOW tracking units that would black out after operating for a while in the cold.

    If you have a hand-held computer (notebook, pad, I-whatever) with an LCD or touch screen you can be hosed.

    If you're laying in an ambush you might be more comfortable on an Ensolite or Thermarest pad.

    If you're operating in grizzly or polar bear areas one or two guys in the squad should be swinging a 7.62 -- with live ammo even if it's peacetime.

  3. #33
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    Jack Leuba
    Director, Military and Government Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  4. #34
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    F2S, that other thread has soom good info as well - but still doesn't address fully (in my opinion) techniques, maintenance and equipment that can help overcome working in cold weather. It simply says "here are the problems"

    What I want to get out are some solutions to cold weather issues, but first we have to know what those issues are - whether it be from .mil TM and FM's, hunting anecdotes, or personal experience of trained shooters.

    Some of the things brought up so far are anti fog coatings on glasswear optics, type and application of lubricants, and personal equipment to use when handling rifles in extreme cold.

  5. #35
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    Preliator- I didn't mean to imply that it was the pen-ultimate "how to" of cold weather, just giving another source of info.

    I think that Sinister gave some really good advice in this thread.
    Jack Leuba
    Director, Military and Government Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  6. #36
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    F2S, apologies, I understand and tone gets lost online so easily. With the addition of the information in the older thread, along with the information that Sinister linked and the discussion to date; I believe we have identified most of the major issues with running rifles in extreme cold weather. I am now going into "solve the problem" mode.

  7. #37
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    I was thinking about this today and thought about some type of tube with a boot dryer at the bottom. Come in, make the weapon safe, plug in the dryer, and put the gun in the tube. Like a 4ft long piece of PVC or something.



    Basically the intent is for warm air to evaporate the moisture off the gun fairly quickly without baking the gun.


    I am sure there are quite a few ways to do it but just something that came to mind.

  8. #38
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    LUBRICANT FRICTION AND DURABILITY TESTS
    UNDER SIMULATED WEAPON CONDITIONS


    TECHNICAL, REPORT,
    Bernard J. Bornong
    November :1970

    Page 11.

    "Lubricating Oil, for Aircraft Weapons," Military
    Specification MIL-L-14107B, 30 July 1964.
    http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc...f&AD=AD0717560




    The A and the W are for Aircraft Weapons. Apparently, the Air Force developed it and the Army adopted it for small-arms use.
    Last edited by Heavy Metal; 11-07-11 at 21:45.
    My brother saw Deliverance and bought a Bow. I saw Deliverance and bought an AR-15.

  9. #39
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    OK

    Getting gear together for cold weather shoot tomorrow, Should be 2-3 hours out on Birchwood Range. Not as cold as I was hoping for, in Anchorage the high is going to be 28 F, Birchwood is usually a bit colder. Might try again for Sunday as the high is supposed to be in the mid teens with snow as well.

    Things I wanna try out - 1st, the rifle is going to be in a rifle bag with loaded mags and in the back of my truck for the 30-40 minute drive out to drop its temperature. I am going to be shooting with different thickness of gloves on, see how weapon manipulations go and see how some very thin sporting gloves work with cold bare metal. I plan on starting the shooting with minimal lube on, and then soaking it a little later. We will see how propellant fog affects target acquisition. Also planning on bringing the rifle into the well heated truck to see how the aimpoint does with fogging/condensation.

    Any other ideas/suggestions?

  10. #40
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    It's been pretty frickin' cold here in Maine the last few weeks. While there are concerns about the firearms, lights, optics and ammo, I didn't see anything about the mags. I wonder how the various mags would hold up to storage in cold weather and being used after cold storage.
    -VERITAS VINCIT-

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