Cyber weaknesses should deter US from waging war

[SuperiorDG]

"Clarke said a good national security adviser would tell the president that the U.S. might be able to blow up a nuclear plant somewhere, or a terrorist training center somewhere, but a number of countries could strike back with a cyberattack and "the entire us economic system could be crashed in retaliation ... because we can't defend it today.""


So should we prepare more on the home front for wars over seas. It seems we could possible face an EMP type result from a cyber attack. If we need to take care of Iran, for example, so be it, but should the general public on the homeland be more prepared for the possibility of cyber attacks? If Israel does bomb them, should we be concerned?

Cyber weaknesses should deter US from waging war

[Moose-Knuckle]

If Israel does bomb them, should we be concerned?

If the IDF bombs Iran nuke sites it will bring China and Russia into conflict with the West. The headlines would read like the pages of the Book of Revalations.

[VooDoo6Actual]

"Clarke said a good national security adviser would tell the president that the U.S. might be able to blow up a nuclear plant somewhere, or a terrorist training center somewhere, but a number of countries could strike back with a cyberattack and "the entire us economic system could be crashed in retaliation ... because we can't defend it today.""


So should we prepare more on the home front for wars over seas. It seems we could possible face an EMP type result from a cyber attack. If we need to take care of Iran, for example, so be it, but should the general public on the homeland be more prepared for the possibility of cyber attacks? If Israel does bomb them, should we be concerned?

Cyber weaknesses should deter US from waging war

Least we not forget the bogus/counterfeit Chinese/N.Korean processors/chips our MIL QC has been purchasing passing on critical programming/targeting software for missles/SAMs etc et alia only to learn later....

Brillant....

[Alric]

I have to admit, I began tuning the article out whenever North Korea made the list of cyber threats. Maybe I'm really out of touch with what is going on, but I don't see much of a threat on the cyber front from that nation.

I realize a lot of hacks come from Chinese and Russian sources, but how many of those are government sponsored? What capabilities do we have that we aren't exercising to both counter these threats and make our own cyber retaliation?

I can't help but wonder if it isn't simply a desperate cry for more government regulation and power.

[Nathan_Bell]

Jerry Pournelle wrote 20+ years ago about the need for the military and infrastructure backbone hardware to be ROM/CMOS based systems. You lose flexibility, but you cannot be hacked if all of the computer's action are hard coded into the sucker. To an extent that practice was followed, but over the last decade it has been abandoned almost completely.

Our current culture is based entirely too much on 99%+ things MUST go right or the wheels fall off, so Clarke may be closer to the truth than we like to consider. Think about the shower of shit there would be if the cell phone system was taken out for 48 hours, or if half the ISPs were knocked out for that period of time. $$$$ well beyond what 9/11's interuption in business caused.

I have to admit, I began tuning the article out whenever North Korea made the list of cyber threats. Maybe I'm really out of touch with what is going on, but I don't see much of a threat on the cyber front from that nation.

I realize a lot of hacks come from Chinese and Russian sources, but how many of those are government sponsored? What capabilities do we have that we aren't exercising to both counter these threats and make our own cyber retaliation?

I can't help but wonder if it isn't simply a desperate cry for more government regulation and power.

[Irish]

If the IDF bombs Iran nuke sites it will bring China and Russia into conflict with the West. The headlines would read like the pages of the Book of Revalations.

Absolutely and I think the word armageddon would definitely be appropriate. Russia and China are opposed to more Iranian sanctions and with China doing approximately $40billion per year in business with them their stance will not change. If we get involved in Iran we will be stepping on our dicks big time and the world will forever change and not for the better.

There really wouldn't be any need for the Chinese to get involved militarily as all they'd have to do is impose "sanctions" on the US and not provide us with all of the products that they produce for us. No more iPhone, laptops, televisions or the other millions of products that we can no longer build in this country.

EDIT: Additional thoughts. From the article.

The report called on the U.S. to confront China and Russia in a broad diplomatic push to combat cyberattacks that are on the rise and which represent a "persistent threat to U.S. economic security."

On Monday, Clarke said that until there are real consequences for the massive espionage, countries like China will still keep stealing.

What possible consequences could there be for China? They own our debt and produce the vast majority of products that are used in American homes. We've turned ourselves into China's bitch.

[tremiles]

True, but sanctions from the Chinese in terms of not selling products to the US is not an option in the short term. The market for Chinese goods without the US isn't big enough to absorb even half of the lost market, particularly with the Euro-zone crisis. Perhaps Iran buys 40 billion in US products today, but that's probably 100X fewer than the US. China won't cut off it's nose despite it's face.

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[AlphaKoncepts]

There really wouldn't be any need for the Chinese to get involved militarily as all they'd have to do is impose "sanctions" on the US and not provide us with all of the products that they produce for us. No more iPhone, laptops, televisions or the other millions of products that we can no longer build in this country.

Short term loss, long term gain. That could be a great thing for our economy after the initial havoc settled.

[Irish]

Short term loss, long term gain. That could be a great thing for our economy after the initial havoc settled.

The problem is that we don't have the manufacturing capabilities anymore in this country. We would have to design and build the equipment to produce "stuff", build the plants and then train people how to produce the "stuff" regardless of what it is. Then you'd be fighting the unions for pay and benefits that would drive the prices into the stratosphere for most products.

Either way you're looking at several years minimum for us to get back to a country that can actually produce most of the goods that the consumer wants.

[AlphaKoncepts]

The problem is that we don't have the manufacturing capabilities anymore in this country. We would have to design and build the equipment to produce "stuff", build the plants and then train people how to produce the "stuff" regardless of what it is. Then you'd be fighting the unions for pay and benefits that would drive the prices into the stratosphere for most products.

Either way you're looking at several years minimum for us to get back to a country that can actually produce most of the goods that the consumer wants.

I absolutely agree 100% with everything you've said. But my personal opinion is that this is exactly what this country needs.

What little I know about history having only a high school edumacation on the subject, it was the industrial revolution that really propped up this country in terms of economic growth. We've lost that for one reason or another and lose our greatness the more dependant we become upon foreign countries for any of our needs.