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Thread: Middy won't feed steel case

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joeywhat View Post
    What value? If I'm shooting paper what 'value' does shooting a premium ammo bring me, save perhaps running a little better? But like others in this thread have said, their expensive rifles run the cheaper stuff just fine.

    I fully understand the reasoning of using good ammo when the intent is to shoot things that need shooting...but to use expensive ammo to shoot holes in paper when cheaper stuff is available just makes more sense...especially for those not made of money.
    No one is suggesting you use Hornady or Federal Match ammo for plinking, but maybe not use bottom-of-the-barrel, underpressured, steel Russian ammo. Just maybe some Federal, Privi, or IMI XM193, or Fiocchi 55gr FMJ. All fairly cheap (I just saw Federal Lake City XM193 for $270/1000K at Brownells.) Not as cheap as some of the crap out of Russia, but certainly not "premium" priced.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmart View Post
    This does point out a reality of the weapon system -- it's hard to get a weapon to run reliably with a single buffer/spring combo and cover everything from NATO-spec to Tula.

    My advice would be to divide the ammo spectrum in half, and commit to running either the higher end stuff (and paying the price) or running the lower end stuff and buffer it and spring it accordingly. Or just resign yourself to swapping out buffers and springs depending upon what ammo you're running that day. [ETA] In reality, the problemmatic ammo can probably be segregated to the lower 25% and your stock setup is probably already suited to run the upper 75% of the spectrum. You probably don't have to divide the ammo population in half, more like 75/25.]

    And if you commit to running steel casd ammo, by all means keep your chamber clean. Chamber brush, solvent, then dry patch. Even if your a "just lube it and don't bother cleaning" kind of guy, you need to pay attention to this area. Don't let it get carboned up. Brass cased ammo is a bit cleaner in this regard.
    Eh...that all depends... I used to regularly take my ARs (Colts, DD, & LMT) up to 3-4K rounds fired with just Wolf, or Brown Bear, to include using it in Carbine courses, just kept them generously lubed. I did it to prove that my ARs could do it on a regular basis and to quite the nay sayers of using Wolf/Eastern European ammo. On rare occasions, I'd get a stuck case, but I'd attributed that to a lack of lube in the chamber area. Most that do get stuck cases on a regular basis either have .223 chambers or ARs that aren't tuned properly for shooting a wide variety of ammo.

    Several members have valid points about shooting Steel case ammo and I tend to agree:

    1. It's just training ammo/fodder for paper punching or steel dinging.
    2. It's economical, more training opportunity, and you really to get more bang for your buck.
    3. It irritates the ammo snobs at carbine courses when my weapons don't shit the bed while shooting steel ammo. (my personal favorite).
    Last edited by RogerinTPA; 11-12-11 at 13:05.
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  3. #23
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    Every one of my rifles get a hearty serving of wolf WPA.

    It runs fine and its made by barnauls, if i need to shoot something ill use OTM's that i c an afford, but for paper russian ammo is the way to go when u get it for $160/1000

    I never shoot brass ammo, my budget just doesnt allow it, i have a case for SHTF/HD but other than that its all steel wolf

    Avoid tula if you can though and old black box wolf, stay with brown/silver bear and wolf WPA, thy are made by barnauls and the best russian you can get
    Last edited by sinlessorrow; 11-12-11 at 14:56.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by sacmaster View Post
    The boltcarrier failed to pick up the ammunition after EVERY shot.
    Posted not just for your problem but for everyone else. The next time your rifle has a recurring malfunction short stroke test it first. It all starts with enough gas.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tweak View Post
    Posted not just for your problem but for everyone else. The next time your rifle has a recurring malfunction short stroke test it first. It all starts with enough gas.
    Excellent! Thank you for the constructive advice. Next time I go shoot, I will try this. Sounds like the issue is definitely the lack of gas pressure generated by the ammo.

  6. #26
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    I'm using an H buffer with a Larue spring.
    IIRC, these are the Sprinco RED springs wich are extra power, and very stiff. The Sprinco WHITE is the standard strength buffer spring, and the BLUE is in between white and red.

    I like the extra engineering Sprinco puts in their springs. You may want to try out a white. The extra power ones aren't needed outside of a suppressed carbine gassed 16".

    http://www.laruetactical.com/super-d...-buffer-spring

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joeywhat View Post
    What value? If I'm shooting paper what 'value' does shooting a premium ammo bring me, save perhaps running a little better? But like others in this thread have said, their expensive rifles run the cheaper stuff just fine.
    Value is clean, accurate, reliable, consistent for a fair price no matter what the bullets hit. New ammunition is $300 to $400 per case. If you really shoot that much where $300-400 is a deal breaker, get a different hobby or reload your own ammunition. It's not the round count that matters is what each and every round you fire teaches you about you and your weapon.

    I fully understand the reasoning of using good ammo when the intent is to shoot things that need shooting...but to use expensive ammo to shoot holes in paper when cheaper stuff is available just makes more sense...especially for those not made of money.
    My biggest issue with steel cased ammunition is it doesn't obturate and seal the chamber resulting in blow-by. If it happened with brass ammunition I wouldn't tolerate it, so why introduce that same sub-par event on purpose?
    I'm an FFL/gunsmith, not the holster company. We specialize in subsonic ammunition and wholesale rifles.

  8. #28
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    Because we've had this back-and forth over steel-case often enough that we don't need to have it here, that's why.

    Fact is, steel-case is what's being used in the rifle in question, steel-case is known to work just fine. Had the primary question been "what do you think of steel-case ammo...," we would not be here in the first place because this would have been shut down ricky-tick.

    But, that wasn't the question, it's NOT the go-to answer for the issue even if that had been the question. Hoofbeats more often mean that a herd of horses is approaching, not a herd of zebras, so if you or anybody else can't post anything without trying to sneak in a steel-case pro/con opinion or a "shooter's financial planning" opinion where it doesn't belong....don't post.

    Plus, the "extra dollar" portion in the OP settles the question of ammo usage on the part of the owner of the gun in question. The prancing and preening isn't necessary, on anybody's part.
    Contractor scum, AAV

  9. #29
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    You make a valid point about the brass obturating in the chamber. This is obviously critical with the AR system.

    I am sure that the steel does do it, but not as much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raven Armament View Post
    Value is clean, accurate, reliable, consistent for a fair price no matter what the bullets hit. New ammunition is $300 to $400 per case. If you really shoot that much where $300-400 is a deal breaker, get a different hobby or reload your own ammunition. It's not the round count that matters is what each and every round you fire teaches you about you and your weapon.


    My biggest issue with steel cased ammunition is it doesn't obturate and seal the chamber resulting in blow-by. If it happened with brass ammunition I wouldn't tolerate it, so why introduce that same sub-par event on purpose?



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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    You make a valid point about the brass obturating in the chamber. This is obviously critical with the AR system.

    I am sure that the steel does do it, but not as much.
    thats why it gets dirtier in the chamber.

    i use steel since i go through 1000 rounds in 2 months, thats $300 every two months something i cant spend, but i can spend $160 every 2 months on ammo.

    steel case is fine, it doesnt hurt your rifle, all it does is get dirtier faster, hope to god you never shoot suppressed itll be 5 times dirtier than shooting steel cased ammo. that said i clean my rifle every 1k rounds and its been fine with 100% steel, occasionally ill use some excellent brass and have never seen any loss of accuracy.

    fact is the steel used in the ammo is much softer than the parts in the rifle, from what ive seen wolf is minute of man at 100yrds which is good enough for me to practice with it and learn using it. you do know hornady makes steel cased ammo too? the bullet is great but i guess its crap too
    Last edited by sinlessorrow; 11-13-11 at 00:17.

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