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Thread: Nickel Boron Bolt Carrier Battle: R Guns vs. Spike's

  1. #81
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    I totally agree with the premise that this site is great because of actual end users experience. But, and this is a huge but. Whenever the word "spikes" is inserted into a discussion the discussion strays from merit and into diatribe. Colt makes the same basic bcg but there is no outright ridicule. There is no cry of retard fan base. When did this become a rock concert and someone with what looks to be a completely quality bolt (albeit NiB coated) get crushed because he is wearing the wrong T shirt?

    Has anyone experienced any failures with spikes bolt or bcg. I have read IG's description of BM products en masse and wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole. That is the real world experience and knowledge that makes this site a great database. Hating their products just because they sell stupid shit isn't. Is this particular product not up to standards (regardless of the value/lack of value of the NiB coating) or does the "fan base" mentality and the price markup fiasco overshadow it all and not allow for objective judgement of individual products?

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wormydog1724 View Post
    Easier to clean? At first. After a couple thousand rounds, no way Jose. It gets dirty just like any other BCG. It requires lubrication just like any other BCG. It goes bang just like any other BCG. NiB is no wonder coating and until I see hard evidence that it outlasts regular BCG's I will not change my mind. As stated earlier I have one so I'm not simply talking completely out of my ass.
    Have you even tried running it with no lube?

    I've gone over 2k rounds on my severely over-gassed SBR multiple times now without failures. Legion has a completely FZ'd middy which has over 5k rounds through it with no lubrication. SMGLee has a video of him totally degreasing a rifle and shooting it.

    Here's my initial review thread:
    http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=45406

    Regardless, it is a niche product mostly for SBR/FA/suppressed or some combination thereof. It's just Gucci gear on a, 'standard' rifle as I cannot think of a situation where one cannot add lube after 500 rounds...
    Dave Merrill
    Terrible Technical Writer. Awful Photographer. Lazy Instructor. Kind of a dick.
    Loves Tacos.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_M View Post
    Have you even tried running it with no lube?
    Lol Yes when i first got it I tried running it with no lube. At around 700-800 rounds the inside of the gas key tube (where the gas tube goes) was so crudded and caked with well crud that it was having trouble closing all the way. A tap to the FA and it was fine. And it still went bang every time. Just every now and then a tap on the FA was necessary. I did a review of this BCG on barfcom, I can't remember if I posted here too or not. I decided that I wouldn't do that again and now I lubricate it before every match and clean it every third match or so. I'm still not convinced even now that I have a suppressor and have 100 or so rounds on my BCM BCG with it.
    2k rounds without lube? That is impressive.
    http://www.youtube.com/wormydog1724

    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz
    This isn't "Ihuntcoyotes.com.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    Let's stick with the original topic and not what Spikes' may or may not be doing. It's been discussed enough.
    Grant brought up the issue of posting pretty papers by saying BCM did it and no one else really did, all i did was respond that spikes posted pretty papers as well. sorry if it offended anyone.

    im a pitbull owner and have gamebred dogs you would be surprised at which line of dogs get a pass just become of their pedigree, but since its illegal in america to game test anymore its irrelevant. this is kinda that same issue.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_M View Post
    Have you even tried running it with no lube?

    I've gone over 2k rounds on my severely over-gassed SBR multiple times now without failures. Legion has a completely FZ'd middy which has over 5k rounds through it with no lubrication. SMGLee has a video of him totally degreasing a rifle and shooting it.

    Here's my initial review thread:
    http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=45406

    Regardless, it is a niche product mostly for SBR/FA/suppressed or some combination thereof. It's just Gucci gear on a, 'standard' rifle as I cannot think of a situation where one cannot add lube after 500 rounds...
    thanks a lot for chiming in dave this thread fail to s**t

  6. #86
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    Spike's, R Guns's, Colt's, or whoever - How does this product make a reliable working firearm into a better, more reliable firearm or how does it enhance a shooter's capabilities? Cleaning after the match or firefight doesn't help during that match or firefight...

    Up until this point in the thread nothing was mentioned that showed a NiB BCG would offer anything more than a cool looking finish, or a theoretical unquantified advantage, while doing the same thing other bolts already do.

    Thanks for posting that Dave, and the other thread you linked too. So now we're talking thousands of rounds without cleaning or lubrication, and still running FA/suppressed/SBR without malfunctions because of this special coating? How has that gun held up for you since you posted that other thread back in Jan '10?
    Last edited by Moltke; 11-16-11 at 13:23.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony413 View Post
    Grant just to make sure i got this correct, you are saying that the certs Spikes Tactical posted here on ARFCOM are not valid?
    http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_282/1...Documents.html

    I am not saying anything. I no longer discuss what any particular company does or does not do. That is YOUR JOB as the consumer to figure out who is legit and who is playing the game.

    As I explained to another member via PM, YOU can call up ANY steel supplier and ask for them to provide you with a cert on a certain steel. First, that cert might be from a year ago. Second, that company where the cert came from might NOT be the place where the steel is even purchased. Unfortunately, this whole steel cert and HPT/MPI thing is more like a shell game these days and really means nothing to me.

    So I stick with companies that have a LONG HISTORY of good customer service, doing what they say they do and just plan ole honesty.



    YMMV.



    C4
    Last edited by C4IGrant; 11-16-11 at 14:05.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by pedropcola View Post
    I totally agree with the premise that this site is great because of actual end users experience. But, and this is a huge but. Whenever the word "spikes" is inserted into a discussion the discussion strays from merit and into diatribe. Colt makes the same basic bcg but there is no outright ridicule. There is no cry of retard fan base. When did this become a rock concert and someone with what looks to be a completely quality bolt (albeit NiB coated) get crushed because he is wearing the wrong T shirt?

    Has anyone experienced any failures with spikes bolt or bcg. I have read IG's description of BM products en masse and wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole. That is the real world experience and knowledge that makes this site a great database. Hating their products just because they sell stupid shit isn't. Is this particular product not up to standards (regardless of the value/lack of value of the NiB coating) or does the "fan base" mentality and the price markup fiasco overshadow it all and not allow for objective judgement of individual products?
    To be honest, the finish on the EXTERIOR of the BCG is irrelevant. The materials used, how it built and how it is tested is all the matters.

    Personally, if Colt put a fail zero type finish on a BCG, I am fine with that. I am also fine if any OTHER company does it. They only thing that matters to me is the quality of the BCG itself.


    C4

  9. #89
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    Regarding these coatings I am sure they have some benefit but I don't really care if a gun can go 5k rounds without cleaning or lube. Any duty gun should be cleaned and inspected pretty regularly.



    First, the purpose of that is to actually get your gun apart, and check for broken or excessively worn parts. You should also be checking for things like foreign objects like pebbles, dirt in the barrel, ect. A PMCS should be part of any piece of equipment you use for duty (LEO and mil) as well as to some extent the home owner. If your gun is filthy then you're more likely to miss things like hairline cracks in parts.


    Second, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Theres no benefit to keeping a dirty weapon over a clean one which is properly serviced, PMCS'd, and lubed. It reeks of laziness and a lack of care for the weapon you're supposedly using for home defense, LEO duty or military service. Im not saying guns should be white glove clean and scrubbed so much half the finish is gone. But you should know when your shit is dirty and when its not.


    So I have no real use for a BCG that in some tests have gone XXXX rounds without being cleaned. The guns I keep for home protection are pretty clean (not spotless), and Ive broken them down since last being fired to check for broken parts, and made sure everything is lubed to my satisfaction. I have taken guns to 5k rounds without cleaning, and that was more my own informational testing rather than saying the gun doesn't need to be cleaned. I like to put a gun through its paces before I trust it.

    For me, I don't think there is any benefit for the extra cost of a NIB BCG and my guns work just fine without them. I am approaching close to 20k rounds through my SR15 and its run fine with a phosphated BCG as have every other AR15 Ive owned. I've never once had an issue that could be attributed to a lack of having a NIB BCG. If you look at a BCG there are really few contact points that actually touch the inside of the upper. You basically have 4 rails that make contact, and each one is quite narrow. The primary contact point of the bolt inside the carrier are the gas rings and a small "ring" or "band" of material between the lugs and cam pin hole. Its been my experience, that with use, all these contact surfaces become polished over time down to bare steel, and polished steel is quite slick. It will generally take quite a bit of shooting before things become dry enough for there to be an issue. Far more than any soldier, LEO or home defense guy would shoot in an engagement. If you look at the testing done following the battle of Wanat other parts of an AR will fail before the BCG will seize due to lack of lube.


    I do think these types of coatings do have applications that could benefit from them including the internals of belt fed machine guns where in real world use they will put a lot more rounds down range in a shorter period of time than a "rifleman's" gun. In a belt fed's case, with interchangeable barrels, and a high rate of fire they are designed to keep going. In this case lube becomes more critical than worrying about other parts failing unlike the AR15. The gun will fail due to lack of lube not because the gas tube ruptured or the barrel drooped as is what happens when an AR is fired to its failure point. Generally these high round count 'tests' do not have the same rate of fire, and thus the BCG will seize as the lube is burned off. In this case, usually, all that is required to keep the gun running is more lube. Do NIB carriers negate this or at least extend the time period before failure? It sounds like they do but my main point here is the gun should not be shot to that point in the first place if its used for mil, LEO or HD uses.

  10. #90
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    Belmont, you're right, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. I was just thinking it's nice to have more capable parts and I'm interested in the potential of this coating if it has merit, and if the part it's on has merit. Usually when I see stuff that's non-standard like this, I immediately think "gimmick" and red flags go up. Until Dave posted earlier, it looked to me just to be another slick paint job but if it offers something I'd like to know exactly what that something is.

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