Skill level for EAG Carbine 2..

[kVon]

My uncle frequents Pat Rogers classes and told me EAG will be coming to Utah in June 2012. I have never taken a training class before but have done several 3-gun matches and a couple carbine matches. My unle said I would probably be alright but I might try to find a basic course before June to take.

I want some opinions from you guys to whether the carbine 2 class would be too advanced if I have never had a formal training class. My uncle is the run and gun type that would mop the floor with me, so I don't know if he has more faith in my skill than he should.

What do you guys think? I want to be able to enjoy the class and learn without being over my head.

[Ed L.]

I think you should be okay. His Carbine 2 class is really his Carbine 1 with a night shooting component.

Make sure to have a well-lubricated quality AR (BCM/Colt/Daniel Defense/LMT), decent mags, decent ammo, etc.

[VIP3R 237]

I havent done EAG before but Im interested in the class. Id love to take an eag course. Any other info?

[kVon]

I think you should be okay. His Carbine 2 class is really his Carbine 1 with a night shooting component.

Make sure to have a well-lubricated quality AR (BCM/Colt/Daniel Defense/LMT), decent mags, decent ammo, etc.

I run an LMT rifle with sopmod, battlecomp, and a centurion rail. Simple quality setup. I have heard Pat runs his guns wet. I always enjoy reading the filthy 14 articles.

The class does mention a night shoot. I have done a few night matches so that shouldn't be a problem. Thanks for the info

[kVon]

I havent done EAG before but Im interested in the class. Id love to take an eag course. Any other info?

He is doing Pistol 2 and Carbine 2 in late June. The info and application is on the EAG tactical website.

[Failure2Stop]

From the EAG website:

Carbine 2 is a 3 day Carbine Operators Course with the addition of two (2) Low Light Shoots.
It is not a beginner's course.
[snip]
Pre-requisite:

At a minimum, you must have attended a previous carbine and a previous pistol course, taught by a recognized instructor or an agency/ department course. Not all instructors/ courses are alike. Please contact us if you have questions about this.

[markm]

I would NOT take that course with NO prior formal training.

I'm no fan of Rogers, and have never taken his classes... but I'd give this advice of any of the carbean schools out there.

You need a basic handgun and carbine course under your belt or you could end up slowing the class down.

[BC520]

I run an LMT rifle with sopmod, battlecomp, and a centurion rail. Simple quality setup. I have heard Pat runs his guns wet. I always enjoy reading the filthy 14 articles.

The class does mention a night shoot. I have done a few night matches so that shouldn't be a problem. Thanks for the info

I have been at a number of EAG classes. First, if you have any questions, please email Pat Rogers, as he can best answer any questions and provide the best guidance from the horses mouth as to if he feels the course is too much for your skill level or not. He has an excellent article on his website called Coming to Class. Read it, as it will also give lots of insight as to some of the preparation needed to get the most out of your money at a class. With that said, EAG Carbine 2 is a very fast paced course. LOTS of information. If you have the ability to attend a Basic Carbine course of some sort prior to Carbine 2, it will help you to be more familiar with your rifle, which means you can focus more on what goes on in class. Do not attempt to take the class without formal training with operating a carbine of some sort PRIOR to the EAG class. It is too much information for you to take in otherwise.

Pat's class has a lot of focus on Fighting with a carbine vs shooting. The classes I have been in have been mixed with mostly LE shooters, but some MIL and quite a few Civilian shooters also attend. Of those, there are some that are taking the class for defense purposes, and some have Match experience. One thing that I have seen over time is that Match shooters begin to smooth out and become more and more proficient once they focus on the fighting mentality vs the Match mentality at the course. Keep things simple. Special gadgets intended to increase speed at a match frequently fail with the pressure from conditions that occur during a high round count course. Speed holstering, fixed tunneling mindsets, and failing to seperate the differences between matches and fighting are all learning blocks that you will need to be open to changing during the course. One such example is that you've shot during some night matches. That does not mean anything. That's like saying I've held a gun, so I know how to shoot. What you will learn during the night shoots is the best low-light training I have experienced, even though I have had specific low-light training as an LEO. There is LOTS to consider in regards to it.

A common analogy expressed in regards to Pat's classes is "drinking from a firehose." There will be so much information coming, that you will be trying to absorb as much of it as possible. The reason I have taken more than one EAG course is because I have needed to in order to help develop the levels of competence I feel is needed for my duties and abilities.

If you have the ability to attend, great! It will be an incredible experience, and if you attend with an open mind geared towards what Pat teaches versus how YOU do it at a match, you will be much more successful. You will be able to take the skills you learn, become much much more proficient with the carbine and shooting. But I will tell you right now that very different than Match Shooting. A couple matches here and there is not training, and should not be considered by you as knowing what you're doing.

Listen to your Uncle. Forging ahead without doing so shows you aren't ready to have that open mind needed to properly digest the training.

[JSantoro]

EDIT: Holy hell, did I misread THAT part! Damn, my apologies.

You need to fulfill the prerequisites of any firearms training curriculum for the sake of raw safety, and as markm said, so that the other dozen or so people that are ALSO paying what you're paying to train....aren't forced to needlessly wait up for somebody else's lag-time.

There's plenty of time, before June 2012, to take your prerequisites. I'd hit up your M4C regional training group, in addition to the formal class listings, to see about getting that done.

[kVon]

Thank you all for your comments. I am not one to overrate my experience and do not want to run before walking. I was mentioning my time in shooting matches as more an understanding of basic manipulation and safety rules. I know it is not considered training by any means.

I am going to try to find someone to take a basic class from this spring so I can get a basic carbine class under my belt before heading to the EAG class. I do not have a lot of time or money for training so I want to get the most for my money and enjoy the experience. I appreciate the advise guys.