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Thread: Running the bolt carrier on rails...

  1. #11
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    The AR-18 is the father of most modern designs and it is awesome, they thought it would crush the AR-15 but it was too late, Look at the G36, SCAR, ARX 160.

    The AR has a good manufacturing process though, CNC machines are a dime a dozen, no tooling required, simple boring and on axis alignment, but it really makes all the sense in the world when you consider the gas system and how it doesn't provide the tilting moment. So there is no need for a perpendicular surface to cancel the moment.

    There is good and bad with all, but the true piston AR was the AR18, I wonder if it could be brought back by a good name and get any real military sales.

    Quote Originally Posted by drrufo View Post
    There is an AR with the bolt on rails, it's called an AR18. Google it for the design.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by armatac View Post
    The AR-18 is the father of most modern designs and it is awesome, they thought it would crush the AR-15 but it was too late, Look at the G36, SCAR, ARX 160.

    The AR has a good manufacturing process though, CNC machines are a dime a dozen, no tooling required, simple boring and on axis alignment, but it really makes all the sense in the world when you consider the gas system and how it doesn't provide the tilting moment. So there is no need for a perpendicular surface to cancel the moment.

    There is good and bad with all, but the true piston AR was the AR18, I wonder if it could be brought back by a good name and get any real military sales.

    i don't think anything that can't be slapped onto an AR lower is going to see serious sales. The ACR proved that.

    I looked into ar18's when i was new to the whole EBR game... they've got some durability problems i guess, and parts support isn't anywhere near where it is with the Ar15.
    those daewoo rifles are neat, but hard to come by also.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyugo View Post
    i don't think anything that can't be slapped onto an AR lower is going to see serious sales. The ACR proved that.

    I looked into ar18's when i was new to the whole EBR game... they've got some durability problems i guess, and parts support isn't anywhere near where it is with the Ar15.
    those daewoo rifles are neat, but hard to come by also.
    Have you looked at a M&P 15-22 it uses seperate rails for the bolt to ride on. Something similar could be done on a full caliber AR but would only be usefull or needed if making a piston gun, at that point why not just buy a SCAR?

  4. #14
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    Too late


    Last edited by BCmJUnKie; 11-18-11 at 19:48.
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  5. #15
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    i was kinda hoping for a meme free dialog here but ok....

    if you think the AR is perfect you're delusional and this thread isn't' for you.

    bottom line is something like an AK is a lot more likely to function when full of sand. Something i haven't really seen addressed in any alternative AR upper is the whole round peg in a round hole situation with the bolt carrier and receiver. It's a design not really found anywhere else.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyugo View Post
    bottom line is something like an AK is a lot more likely to function when full of sand.
    Sorry to burst your bubble, but NO weapon will function reliably if it is full of sand (or any other abrasive substance.)

    The whole "AKs are super reliable" is as much of a myth as saying that "ARs jam all the time."

    Both weapons can fail ( I have experienced failures with both types of weapons) and neither one will function without proper care.



    I don't think it would serve any logical purpose to redesign a weapon. If you don't like it, get (or design) something else.

    Trying to jimmy-rig a weapon is not the way to wind up with a durable reliable end result.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyugo View Post
    i was kinda hoping for a meme free dialog here but ok....

    if you think the AR is perfect you're delusional and this thread isn't' for you.

    bottom line is something like an AK is a lot more likely to function when full of sand. Something i haven't really seen addressed in any alternative AR upper is the whole round peg in a round hole situation with the bolt carrier and receiver. It's a design not really found anywhere else.
    Daewoo has it.
    My brother saw Deliverance and bought a Bow. I saw Deliverance and bought an AR-15.

  8. #18
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    Instead of making it run on rails, maybe on air bearings. Sure you would have to carry a compressor on your back but think of the improved reliability!

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyugo View Post
    i was kinda hoping for a meme free dialog here but ok....

    if you think the AR is perfect you're delusional and this thread isn't' for you.

    bottom line is something like an AK is a lot more likely to function when full of sand. Something i haven't really seen addressed in any alternative AR upper is the whole round peg in a round hole situation with the bolt carrier and receiver. It's a design not really found anywhere else.
    I think its perfect. Its perfectly killed more people than small pox. That being said you are out of your ****ing league junior. Every half baked design you can dream up has already been tried at least twice. If you want a bolt group on rails, there are a dozen rifles to fit your needs. Unfortunately the AR-15 isn't one of them. Now do us all a favor and go away quietly...

  10. #20
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    The carrier already has rails


    If you study it closely, you will see the design is given generous clearances to allow the BCG to float inside the upper. Eliminating tilt with rails means the clearances at those points need to be reduced. If more clearance is needed to assure reliability, this defeats the purpose.

    Guide rails do not eliminate bolt/carrier tilt in other designs. Designers just reduce the amount of tilt by keeping the bolt/carrier short and/or controlling where the tilt vectors happen. With the AR BCG, tilt happens at the rear of the carrier where it can rub the receiver extension. This isn't a problem with the original design because little tilt is induced. With the AK, the tilt happens at the front (the AK bolt group is longer in front of it's guide rails than at the rear) and the tilt rubs nothing
    Last edited by MistWolf; 11-18-11 at 22:37.
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