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Thread: S&W M&P T (new & improved)

  1. #1
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    S&W M&P T (new & improved)

    We were in the process of purchasing 200 S&W M&P Ts when they all started to fail… Being a “Colt” guy, I used this as further proof that anything without a pony on it is suspect until proven otherwise…

    We sent a number of rifles back to S&W with a list of our concerns and I must say that they were very receptive…

    The S&W tactical rifle production manager flew out from Springfield with an armorer and several new complete uppers… I had an opportunity to ask him several direct questions about the problem and he was very forth coming…

    The gas block issues that the M&P Ts had were traced back to a QC issue with an outside vender, an attempt to save weight and make the rifle as light a possible, all combined with other assembly problems. The original gas blocks were aluminum and were a very tight fit that required being pressed in place. Two set screws were then added to the bottom to help hold it in place. Over course of the production run of aluminum gas blocks that were used, there were some variances in the internal diameter of the blocks. That combined with how they were assembled and the different rates of expansion of dissimilar metals as they heated up, led to the problems…

    The fix is a new steel gas block, from a new vendor, that is pined in place with a GI spec pin. We fired several thousand rounds through this new style upper with no stoppages…

    Additionally I asked about the PMAG issue and he stated that all of their original testing was done with GI style aluminum magazines from Okay Industries and that they did not anticipate the use of the PMAG in their carbines. He added that all current production S&W’s will have a correctly beveled magazine well that will accept the PMAG…

    I additionally advised him that over several weeks of hard use, the Troy sights that come on the Ts had a tendency to work loose, and if not checked, fall off. The simple fix for this is to figure out where you want them and blue locktight them in place. He agreed and you may start to see a small tube of blue locktight included with the Ts in the near future…

    In the end Smith & Wesson was very responsive to our requests (demands), and I have nothing but positive remarks about the level of customer service that we received.
    MossieTactics.com ~ KMA 367

  2. #2
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    It's good top see a (relatively) new player in the market striving to improve their product.
    GLOCK PREFECTION

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    It's good to see that S&W is continuing their fine tradition. They are a good company. Those T models are pretty tempting.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buck View Post
    Additionally I asked about the PMAG issue and he stated that all of their original testing was done with GI style aluminum magazines from Okay Industries and that they did not anticipate the use of the PMAG in their carbines. He added that all current production S&W’s will have a correctly beveled magazine well that will accept the PMAG…

    Did he mention what the owners of older production M&P15's should do about the mag wells that don't accept PMAG's?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buck View Post
    I additionally advised him that over several weeks of hard use, the Troy sights that come on the Ts had a tendency to work loose, and if not checked, fall off. The simple fix for this is to figure out where you want them and blue locktight them in place. He agreed and you may start to see a small tube of blue locktight included with the Ts in the near future…
    Loctite and witness marks should be used on anything that gets screwed to a rifle. I learned that when my first EOTech fell off. I figured everyone knew that by now.

    I suppose one could dummy cord or safety wire everything together, but what kind of solution is that.
    Principles matter.

  6. #6
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    My Stag 3L (no sights) came with an aluminum railed gas block as well. Made it really light and improved the balance, but I heard about the dissimilar metal expansion problem a little while after buying the carbine, and that the fix was a steel gas block.

    Stag's promotional materials bragged about the aluminum gas block, but their web store only sells a steel block.

    So I replaced the aluminum block with a GG&G clamp on tactical gas block/folding sight. It's all steel with 3 allen bolts and so far is holding very well. Their spec is 35 in-lbs per bolt with blue loctite. I also use a GG&G rear sight that mounts with an allen bolt and specs 20 in-lbs and blue loctite.

    I think S&W's pinned steel gas block is a great solution, especially with the longer forearm they use on the T model. The Troy sights really should have an allen head screw so you can get them good and tight. I hate flathead screws because they always get damaged when you torque them enough to stay put.

  7. #7
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    Rumor mill states that S&W will expand options to the M&P 15 line in 08.

    I have a new 6-24x S&W scope waiting for one

    It's good to hear that they took care of the issues and corrected them in future production.
    GET IN YOUR BUBBLE!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark5pt56 View Post
    Rumor mill states that S&W will expand options to the M&P 15 line in 08.
    From what I hear the M&P15 PC will be discontinued (or already is) replaced with a similar rifle (but less expensive) and there will be models without threaded muzzles, no flash hiders and with faux collapsible stocks.

    What I would like to see would be 1x7 twist offered as well as M4 ramps (on all models). My rep said that they will be dimpling the set screws on the M&P15Ts after he brought it up in a meeting (on my recommendation) that something should be done as I've had to fix dozens of them for shooting loose. I still would prefer that they taper pin the gas blocks on the M&P15T.

    What I would also like to see would be maybe make a limited run of 'race ready/3gun' rifles. Use a 16" midlength or 18" rifle gas length barrel, standard forged M&P upper and lower receivers, JP trigger, JP VTAC rifle length tube, pinned lo-pro gas block, JP Bennie Cooley brake, VLTOR E-MOD stock, and JP or LMT BCG.
    Chief Armorer for Elite Shooting Sports in Manassas VA
    Chief Armorer for Corp Arms (FFL 07-08/SOT 02)

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    Quote Originally Posted by gotm4 View Post
    ... What I would like to see would be 1x7 twist offered as well as M4 ramps (on all models). ...
    What's S&W's response to these suggestions? Care to speculate why it's sticking with the 1:9?
    KintlaLake
    KintlaLake Blog

    "Blasphemy is an epithet bestowed by superstition upon common sense." (Robert Green Ingersoll)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by KintlaLake View Post
    What's S&W's response to these suggestions? Care to speculate why it's sticking with the 1:9?
    They probably don't think they need it and don't want to spend money to make it available. I've had customers that didn't buy the S&W because it's not available with 1x7. These customers bought Colt, LMT or Rock River.
    Chief Armorer for Elite Shooting Sports in Manassas VA
    Chief Armorer for Corp Arms (FFL 07-08/SOT 02)

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