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They do, for sure, or close to it. MSRP on the S&W M&P 15 is $1,304, and Gander Mtn's price is $1,199. A large independent shop just up the road, one with a large share of the metro LE business, advertises the M&P 15 for $869.
Grant, I almost asked you to put me on the list for one of those 1:7 barrels -- but I came to my senses.When I do go for a 1:7, it'll be attached to a top-tier or a custom build.
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KintlaLake
KintlaLake Blog
"Blasphemy is an epithet bestowed by superstition upon common sense." (Robert Green Ingersoll)
Agreed.S&W's position is that most PD use 55gr ammo and that that the 1/9 twist is favored.
I believe the use of heavies (75/77) is overestimated. Especially true in LE agencies, which will trend toward the cheap and commonly available. The majority of agencies I encounter are running the 55-68 weight range.
There are certainly agencies that are buying and issuing 75/77 OTMs, TAPs, etc, but they are shooting 55s.
One manufacturer offered that the majority of their sales of heavies are to a small minority of shooters. I'd wager that others would report similar data. Fits with observed trends.
Agreed. There's no downside to a 1/7 barrel, but much of the denegration of the 1/9 is unwarranted. A good 1/9 can also shoot 75/77, though less optimally.Truthfully speaking the vast majority of us would be served just fine by 1:9, and if the total number of rounds fired of a given length were the criteria we would probably all be BETTER served with 1:9
2012 National Zumba Endurance Champion
الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب
The rub is, are the PMAGs so prevalent that a manufacturer should modify production to accomodate an accessory?
I like and own PMAGs. The PMAG is popular. Do we overestimate how much so, and the need to accomodate it?
The gun works with GI-pattern mags, which is the baseline.
The cynic in me also wonders what will happen, and what tweaks will be sought, when the next big thing comes along. I'd imagine that there's some managers and engineers wondering the same thing.
Not a dig on PMAG, just observations...
2012 National Zumba Endurance Champion
الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب
He did not, but I also did not ask... Our conversation was solely regarding the rifles the City was evaluating for purchase... And afterword I thought the information would be of interest to some members here...
I was just pointing out that if you here crickets every time you ask "this question", that you may be asking the wrong people...
Me too...
In our UPR program we currently issue the 55 grain Winchester Q3131 (M193) ball ammunition, although some entities within the Department, SIS, SWAT, or Archangel , may use different ammunition depending on their needs... We tested a lot of different ammunition, but our vintage M16A1 rifles ran the best with the ammunition that was designed for them.
The life of the barrel was also a factor and the fact is 1/9 barrels live longer than 1/7...
Buck
MossieTactics.com ~ KMA 367
Another consideration with duty ammo and twist rates is that we use expanding ammunition. The military is confined to FMJ or non expanding HP.
We currently issue 55gr Remington Power Point HP. We'll likely be transitioning to something in the 62-65gr range. The 62gr Federal bonded core is supposed to provide some exceptional terminal ballistics and provide good penetration on auto glass.
I don't think twist rate is as big an issue as it's made out to be. Barrel steel, maybe. But not twist rate.
It's a pretty big issue when you're wanting to stabilize long heavy bullets. The 1x7 was originally needed to stabilize the very long M856 tracer round, it wasn't needed because of projectile weight but was needed because of how long the projectile was.
Back to S&W, if they were only going to offer one twist rate it should have been 1x7 (or even 1x8 to cut it down the middle). That way you could shoot 45-77gr without any problems.
Last edited by Robb Jensen; 12-01-07 at 18:32.
Chief Armorer for Elite Shooting Sports in Manassas VA
Chief Armorer for Corp Arms (FFL 07-08/SOT 02)
To quote Buck......
"The life of the barrel was also a factor and the fact is 1/9 barrels live longer than 1/7..."
I consider myself a FNG but I've spent much time reading the post here and I have not heard that before.
Is this true and why is that?
Thanks
Ed
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