Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 45

Thread: S&W M&P T (new & improved)

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Lakeland, FL
    Posts
    800
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathan_Bell View Post
    Cabela's pricing is not what I would consider competitive, generally very close tp msrp
    Gander sells some of their stuff above MSRP.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Buckeye Nation
    Posts
    658
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by hatt View Post
    Gander sells some of their stuff above MSRP.
    They do, for sure, or close to it. MSRP on the S&W M&P 15 is $1,304, and Gander Mtn's price is $1,199. A large independent shop just up the road, one with a large share of the metro LE business, advertises the M&P 15 for $869.

    Grant, I almost asked you to put me on the list for one of those 1:7 barrels -- but I came to my senses. When I do go for a 1:7, it'll be attached to a top-tier or a custom build.
    KintlaLake
    KintlaLake Blog

    "Blasphemy is an epithet bestowed by superstition upon common sense." (Robert Green Ingersoll)

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    Posts
    8,192
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    S&W's position is that most PD use 55gr ammo and that that the 1/9 twist is favored.
    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    They're probably right....
    Agreed.

    I believe the use of heavies (75/77) is overestimated. Especially true in LE agencies, which will trend toward the cheap and commonly available. The majority of agencies I encounter are running the 55-68 weight range.

    There are certainly agencies that are buying and issuing 75/77 OTMs, TAPs, etc, but they are shooting 55s.

    One manufacturer offered that the majority of their sales of heavies are to a small minority of shooters. I'd wager that others would report similar data. Fits with observed trends.

    Truthfully speaking the vast majority of us would be served just fine by 1:9, and if the total number of rounds fired of a given length were the criteria we would probably all be BETTER served with 1:9
    Agreed. There's no downside to a 1/7 barrel, but much of the denegration of the 1/9 is unwarranted. A good 1/9 can also shoot 75/77, though less optimally.
    2012 National Zumba Endurance Champion
    الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    Posts
    8,192
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by czydj View Post
    IMHO, this is a pretty important issue. PMAGS are prevalent, no doubt about it. What happens if you get into a situation where your partner tosses you a magazine when you run out and it's a PMAG? Do you ask him for a dremel too, so you can file down the PMAG to get back in the game? Just a note, this isn't really even to address my M&P, I've taken care of it myself. What about the folks who don't know and won't find out until it's too late?
    The rub is, are the PMAGs so prevalent that a manufacturer should modify production to accomodate an accessory?

    I like and own PMAGs. The PMAG is popular. Do we overestimate how much so, and the need to accomodate it?

    The gun works with GI-pattern mags, which is the baseline.

    The cynic in me also wonders what will happen, and what tweaks will be sought, when the next big thing comes along. I'd imagine that there's some managers and engineers wondering the same thing.

    Not a dig on PMAG, just observations...
    2012 National Zumba Endurance Champion
    الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    City of Angels
    Posts
    1,794
    Feedback Score
    4 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by czydj View Post
    Not relying on the erronet, Mr. Buck. I was just hoping Mr. Manager had given you additional info beyond "the newest production works fine" quote...
    He did not, but I also did not ask... Our conversation was solely regarding the rifles the City was evaluating for purchase... And afterword I thought the information would be of interest to some members here...

    I was just pointing out that if you here crickets every time you ask "this question", that you may be asking the wrong people...

    Quote Originally Posted by Left Sig View Post
    Regarding pinned versus bolted gas block:

    I think the whole set screw concept is a bad idea.
    Me too...

    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    They're probably right.

    Truthfully speaking the vast majority of us would be served just fine by 1:9, and if the total number of rounds fired of a given length were the criteria we would probably all be BETTER served with 1:9.
    Quote Originally Posted by Skintop911 View Post
    Agreed.

    I believe the use of heavies (75/77) is overestimated. Especially true in LE agencies, which will trend toward the cheap and commonly available. The majority of agencies I encounter are running the 55-68 weight range.

    There are certainly agencies that are buying and issuing 75/77 OTMs, TAPs, etc, but they are shooting 55s.

    One manufacturer offered that the majority of their sales of heavies are to a small minority of shooters. I'd wager that others would report similar data. Fits with observed trends.

    Agreed. There's no downside to a 1/7 barrel, but much of the denegration of the 1/9 is unwarranted. A good 1/9 can also shoot 75/77, though less optimally.
    In our UPR program we currently issue the 55 grain Winchester Q3131 (M193) ball ammunition, although some entities within the Department, SIS, SWAT, or Archangel , may use different ammunition depending on their needs... We tested a lot of different ammunition, but our vintage M16A1 rifles ran the best with the ammunition that was designed for them.

    The life of the barrel was also a factor and the fact is 1/9 barrels live longer than 1/7...

    Buck
    MossieTactics.com ~ KMA 367

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    On a huge sandbar...
    Posts
    470
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Buck View Post
    I was just pointing out that if you hear crickets every time you ask "this question", that you may be asking the wrong people...


    Buck
    Fair enough and thanks for the clarification on what y'all discussed...

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    SE FL
    Posts
    14,148
    Feedback Score
    5 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Skintop911 View Post
    Agreed. There's no downside to a 1/7 barrel, but much of the denegration of the 1/9 is unwarranted. A good 1/9 can also shoot 75/77, though less optimally.
    I tend to buy with the eye towards what I would use if I needed to, and what I use for hunting hogs, vs. what I shoot the most of. I probably shoot 1,000 rounds of 55/62 grain for every single round of 75/77That's probably the opposite of what I should be doing.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    151
    Feedback Score
    0
    Another consideration with duty ammo and twist rates is that we use expanding ammunition. The military is confined to FMJ or non expanding HP.

    We currently issue 55gr Remington Power Point HP. We'll likely be transitioning to something in the 62-65gr range. The 62gr Federal bonded core is supposed to provide some exceptional terminal ballistics and provide good penetration on auto glass.

    I don't think twist rate is as big an issue as it's made out to be. Barrel steel, maybe. But not twist rate.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    NoVA
    Posts
    10,780
    Feedback Score
    17 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaeger View Post
    Another consideration with duty ammo and twist rates is that we use expanding ammunition. The military is confined to FMJ or non expanding HP.

    We currently issue 55gr Remington Power Point HP. We'll likely be transitioning to something in the 62-65gr range. The 62gr Federal bonded core is supposed to provide some exceptional terminal ballistics and provide good penetration on auto glass.

    I don't think twist rate is as big an issue as it's made out to be. Barrel steel, maybe. But not twist rate.
    It's a pretty big issue when you're wanting to stabilize long heavy bullets. The 1x7 was originally needed to stabilize the very long M856 tracer round, it wasn't needed because of projectile weight but was needed because of how long the projectile was.

    Back to S&W, if they were only going to offer one twist rate it should have been 1x7 (or even 1x8 to cut it down the middle). That way you could shoot 45-77gr without any problems.
    Last edited by Robb Jensen; 12-01-07 at 18:32.
    Chief Armorer for Elite Shooting Sports in Manassas VA
    Chief Armorer for Corp Arms (FFL 07-08/SOT 02)

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Yorkistan
    Posts
    74
    Feedback Score
    0
    To quote Buck......

    "The life of the barrel was also a factor and the fact is 1/9 barrels live longer than 1/7..."

    I consider myself a FNG but I've spent much time reading the post here and I have not heard that before.

    Is this true and why is that?

    Thanks

    Ed

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •