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Thread: FrogLube...behind the scenes, at a glance

  1. #111
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    I just don't understand the (implied) importance of whether or not Frog Lube (or any other product for that matter) was "discovered" by Cpt Lasky? As others have stated there are tons of products out there that are re-branded with little or no changes; but as long as they work who cares which came first? As non-firearms related examples; anyone wonder why cars from Ford, Bedford and Opel all look(ed) the same? GMC and Chevy anyone? The Nissan Primastar and Renault Trafic?

    Regarding the SEAL connection - yes in this case Frog Lube is marketed by a Navy SEAL, but how many times haven't we heard/read "..as used by the Special Forces/Navy SEAL:s/Roger's Rangers/Wilderness Girls..." in promotional material? I work in sales, and my dad spent his whole life as an AD in advertising, so I tend to ignore most of the promotional hoo-haah surrounding products - I prefer to listen to first hand accounts of how the product/service performs.

    In this case I have no first hand experience with Frog Lube, but I have an AR on the way and I may give it a try as enough high round count guys are speaking well of it.

    Also, no offense, but since WS6 claims to have a slight (?) case of OCD (though not as it pertains to reading manuals and following instructions?) the way he choses to do things is not representative of normal use, and therefore his results will obviously not be normal either.
    Last edited by skullworks; 12-03-11 at 07:44.

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by cqbdriver View Post
    Here is the Four-Ball Wear Test results from Slip along with other test results:
    http://www.slip2000.com/gunlube_info.html
    The results for the fourball wear test are not present. They left the proper feild blank.

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by skullworks View Post
    I just don't understand the (implied) importance of whether or not Frog Lube (or any other product for that matter) was "discovered" by Cpt Lasky? As others have stated there are tons of products out there that are re-branded with little or no changes; but as long as they work who cares which came first? As non-firearms related examples; anyone wonder why cars from Ford, Bedford and Opel all look(ed) the same? GMC and Chevy anyone? The Nissan Primastar and Renault Trafic?

    Regarding the SEAL connection - yes in this case Frog Lube is marketed by a Navy SEAL, but how many times haven't we heard/read "..as used by the Special Forces/Navy SEAL:s/Roger's Rangers/Wilderness Girls..." in promotional material? I work in sales, and my dad spent his whole life as an AD in advertising, so I tend to ignore most of the promotional hoo-haah surrounding products - I prefer to listen to first hand accounts of how the product/service performs.

    In this case I have no first hand experience with Frog Lube, but I have an AR on the way and I may give it a try as enough high round count guys are speaking well of it.

    Also, no offense, but since WS6 claims to have a slight (?) case of OCD (though not as it pertains to reading manuals and following instructions?) the way he choses to do things is not representative of normal use, and therefore his results will obviously not be normal either.
    Exactly how did I differ from the proceedure listed?

    Chemical de-grease of weapon...check

    Applied FL paste after heating metal to 150-200*F (oven is not so precise, sorry) by itself...check

    What exactly was not done correctly? Is Froglube such a specialty item that I need to follow the same clinical, regimented procedure with it that I do when changing a PICC line dressing or something?


    As to "why is it important" Well, Mr. Lasky himself cleared that up. He did not discover it, but rather a group of people did, and another group helped him "weaponize" it. These people wish to remain anonymous, and he is "not at liberty" to discuss Trillium-Solutions INC or to reveal the 4-ball wear test numbers other than to say it is superior to the minimal mil-spec. I have no reason to call Mr. Lasky a liar, and not knowing the man, I refuse to insult his character by doing so, and so I will defer to what he told me as true unless proven otherwise. He (in my opinion) cleared up where the chemical originated from when he told me that it was "taken out of industrial use" and then modified. Technically, this means that he can claim to have developed it, even if all he did was change the color. Like you said, it's advertising.

    He has given it to numerous SEALs, and they like it, and Rana and others I have spoken with also like it. I take Mr. Lasky at his word that it passed the 4-ball wear test. He told me that they are now doing a battery of quantitative tests on it but the results are proprietary, etc.

    Why is he playing the cards so close? I don't know. It's not my company. However, we now know that during the 4-ball wear test, it had a scar measuring < than 0.8, or Mr. Lasky is a liar. Those are the ONLY two conclusions that can be reached after my conversation with the man, and unless I have stone-cold evidence to that effect, I refuse to call him a liar.

  4. #114
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by WS6 View Post
    Exactly how did I differ from the proceedure listed?
    After having applied the product you used gun scrubber and/or other cleaning products when the instructions say not to (big "Uncheck"). You yourself pointed out that this created problems.

    As to "why is it important" Well, Mr. Lasky himself cleared that up.
    Read your original post again. You are the one who questioned the origin of the product and implied this was important (though I don't think anyone else here could figure out why it would be). Now that you have questioned Cpt Lasky, and he has confirmed he didn't create the original recipe in his secret lab, you somehow feel justified in questioning the origin of the product to begin with? To what purpose? How was this ever important?

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by An Undocumented Worker View Post
    The results for the fourball wear test are not present. They left the proper feild blank.
    The info is in the link to Herguth Labs.
    Max. wear 0.8 mm to pass test
    and wear with the Slip product was 0.56mm

    It looks like a misplaced number on the linked page.
    Last edited by g5m; 12-03-11 at 11:26.
    former cat herder

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by skullworks View Post
    After having applied the product you used gun scrubber and/or other cleaning products when the instructions say not to (big "Uncheck"). You yourself pointed out that this created problems.

    I have not found any instructions for removing FL from a firearm permanently. The best I found was a dealer advising the use of Alcohol. The instructions regarding FL involve cleaning the weapon, not stripping it completely of the product. I, like others, had some trouble doing it. Lends credibility to the soaking into the pores claim, though.

    Read your original post again. You are the one who questioned the origin of the product and implied this was important (though I don't think anyone else here could figure out why it would be). Now that you have questioned Cpt Lasky, and he has confirmed he didn't create the original recipe in his secret lab, you somehow feel justified in questioning the origin of the product to begin with? To what purpose? How was this ever important?
    How is it not important? When I want to know about something, I want to know all about it. Take Weapon Shield for example...

    Who: George Fennel
    What:Weapon Shield/FULL MSDS available on his website
    Where: Steel Shield Industries
    Why: Alternative/upgrade to FP10 after he broke from the company
    How: Using what he learned inventing FP10

    THAT is a complete profile. I know how it evolved, who evolved it, who produces it, etc.

    With Froglube there were many rumors, noone was sure if it was made by Trillium-Solutions ("I am not at liberty to discuss Trillium"--Mr. Lasky) or Ademonous, noone knows to-date who really discovered the original formula, and Mr. Lasky does not appear to be willing to divulge any information about the product except that he intends to market it from the ground-up to the military and that it is being tested objectively and quantitatively as well as qualitatively, the quantitative results are unavailable to us.

    I am not a religious man. "It's here and it seems to work" doesn't do it for me. Facts>Faith. Fact is that it stays wet and stays where you put it. Faith is that it's actually protecting my weapon--which is now fact after speaking with Mr. Lasky, unless you accuse him of false statement.

    Yes, I did question where/how/what. Yes, I feel 100% justified asking where something/how something came to be if I am going to spend my money on it. You don't? That's your business, and I'm staying out of it.
    Last edited by WS6; 12-03-11 at 11:29.

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6 View Post
    With Froglube there were many rumors, noone was sure if it was made by Trillium-Solutions ("I am not at liberty to discuss Trillium"--Mr. Lasky) or Ademonous, noone knows to-date who really discovered the original formula, and Mr. Lasky does not appear to be willing to divulge any information about the product except that he intends to market it from the ground-up to the military and that it is being tested objectively and quantitatively as well as qualitatively, the quantitative results are unavailable to us.

    I am not a religious man. "It's here and it seems to work" doesn't do it for me. Facts>Faith. Fact is that it stays wet and stays where you put it. Faith is that it's actually protecting my weapon--which is now fact after speaking with Mr. Lasky, unless you accuse him of false statement.

    Yes, I did question where/how/what. Yes, I feel 100% justified asking where something/how something came to be if I am going to spend my money on it. You don't? That's your business, and I'm staying out of it.
    I wouldn't put my data out if the Military was my main market. FL may be the best today, but will it be the best next year? i.e. I need to win as many contracts today, then improve the product when someone comes up with something better. Everyone putting their specs on the internet is great (for their competitors).

    I have a bottle in my office, and will probably put it on a rifle and pistol next week. The fact that it is bio-friendly is an added bonus as I have little kids, teenagers and an Airman running around the house, and I don't have to worry as much about them knocking it over, etc.
    Winning may not be everything, but the endorsements are better.

  8. #118
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    WS6,

    Seriously. Don't buy it or use it. Stick with something else like CLP, WeaponShield, etc...



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

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    Master Armorer/R&D at SIONICS Weapon Systems- http://sionicsweaponsystems.com

  9. #119
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    WS6, there is error in your logic. You say that Mr. Lasky saying it's protecting your weapon is a fact that it does. It's fact that he said that, but faith that you're taking his word for it. It is also fact that a lot of people are telling you it works. It's also faith that you're believing Mr. Lasky when he says it passed the four ball test. This is not fact as it is not confirmed. There is no data you can provide to say otherwise other than one man's word.

    In your search to find answers about FL as a company or for what it's made of or it's origin, you have found almost zero.

    Having said all of this, I am not questioning Mr. Lasky's word. I know FL works amazingly. I'm simply reasoning with your logic.

    I digress, and side with Iraqgunz. Use it, leave it, I don't care.

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6 View Post
    I am not a religious man. "It's here and it seems to work" doesn't do it for me. Facts>Faith. Fact is that it stays wet and stays where you put it. Faith is that it's actually protecting my weapon--which is now fact after speaking with Mr. Lasky, unless you accuse him of false statement.
    So up until the moment Cpt. Lasky told you that FL protects your rifle you didn't think it did. But based on him saying so now you do? Kinda like asking a priest if God exists...



    ETA: I guess Dsm2nr beat me to it.
    Last edited by skullworks; 12-03-11 at 15:17.

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