Did my first USPSA match/speed vs accuracy

[WillBrink]

Used my stock Colt 6940. I had no idea what to expect. In my head, thought it was going to be something like IDPA with ARs. Unlike IDPA, rules seemed very simple:

Be safe
Blast away
Have fun

It was fun, and I did as well as 11th out of 24 in my Division (limited, which is iron sites) on one stage, and as poorly as a DNF on another (don't ask) but for a first time attempt, all good.

I didn't have the right equipment, like multiple mag holders on a belt, and such, so pulling an additional mag from my rear pocket of my jeans, not real conducive to speed.

I also couldn't get myself to just run and gun, and my brain had me using cover, placing my shots, etc. My groups were actually quite good, but I was slow compared to others.

Interestingly, saw lots of Stag Arms, DPMS, BM, and a few Colts, and no LMT, DD, etc. that I saw. I did look at gun racks out of interest, as the comps, optics, and all manner of stuff on the Open and Tactical guns was interesting to see.

Keeping in mind these were truly sport dedicated guns, I tried to pass no judgement there.

What I found interesting was, typical of most shooting sports that I have tried/done, if you are really fast, you don't have to be all that accurate. On my squad there were several guys who would blaze away, but when you went to score their hits, rarely were all rnds in the A zone, and they placed well in their division.

Hits on good guy/no shoots, large groups, etc, not uncommon.

You experienced USPSA shooters notice that? It's one of the things that turns me off to IDPA. I have shot with a number of Master ranked IDPA shooters, who were blazing fast, but not impressively accurate.

Obviously, the top level people are fast and accurate, but it's surprising how far you can get by just being really fast.

Thoughts?

[jwfuhrman]

In USPSA(pistol only) I shoot production division. Accuracy is a MUST being that it's minor powerfactor(Non-A zone hits worth much less than Major power factor). Open looks fun, but I don't wanna spend the 3K to get a gun that can compete in Open. Limited was fun for a while but I shoot only 9mm and unless u load it REALLY HOT, 9mm is a disadvantage in anything but Production.

3gun, yea its all about being fast. As long as u put 1 in the A or 2 anywhere on paper the target is "dead" so I don't take the time to be as accurate, just put rounds on paper or on steel(steel just has to fall or RO has to call hit).

[Stangman]

I've noticed the same thing as you Will, speed seems to count more than accuracy. I just use it as a good practice session personally. I concentrate more on my accuracy & try to pick up speed each time while retaining my accuracy, regardless of how it scores. If I was more serious on wanting to place well, I'd change my tactics but I don't have a desire to win (yet), I just want to improve my skills overall.

[Heavy Metal]

Would be nice if they penalized sub-par hits and misses more heavily. Might slow some of the show-boaters down.

[TomMcC]

In USPSA it's shoot as fast as you can, and still get A's, and C's. It is geared toward speed.

[WillBrink]

In USPSA it's shoot as fast as you can, and still get A's, and C's. It is geared toward speed.

So noted. My goal was to place my shots and hit no good guy targets. I don't think IDPA is geared for speed per se, but does seem to reward it perhaps more then it should in my experience.

I know we have some experienced IDPA match directors and such around here who could weigh in on that.

[TomMcC]

Not making mistakes like hitting no-shoots, and misses will do wonders for your scores.

Although IDPA is geared toward accuracy more that USPSA, by halving the points down they are shading the match toward speed a bit. I shoot an outlaw type 3-gun that gives full value on points down ( 0,1,3 no-shoots are a straight up 10 pts. ), the match directors prefer a bit more accuracy.

[dakotalawdog]

Congrats on your first match, its a great sport, a lot of fun with really great people.

Speed is very important, but I disagree that it is more important than accuracy. Even in USPSA, if you don't shoot accurately, you'll never advance to the higher levels (A, Master, GM) and never keep up with the top shooters. In B and C class, guys can get away with spray and pray because everyone does it, but that doesn't fly in the higher levels.

In production class, where everything is scored minor - accuracy is much more important. I've been told that if you aren't scoring 90% of the available points on a target (ie 2A, AC) you aren't shooting accurate enough.

That's a little simplistic, but its a guideline. The really advanced shooters will look at a stage and how many points its worth, figure out what a good HF should be, and then will be able to tell if its worth an extra X seconds to pick up N points. Saul Kirsch has a really good book "Thinking IPSC" that goes into this more.

My opinion - slow down, get good hits. Your speed will come, and eventually you'll be smoking the guys who stick with spray and pray.

[sff70]

It's easy to go fast when the targets are wide open.

Different story when it comes to partial targets, no shoots, and small steel at distance.

There can be very substantial differences in the style of the match (hoser match v. accuracy intensive match) depending on who the MD is.

The top level guys can shoot accurately at speed and do so even when faced with shooting problems that give lesser skilled guys fits.

[glocktogo]

So noted. My goal was to place my shots and hit no good guy targets. I don't think IDPA is geared for speed per se, but does seem to reward it perhaps more then it should in my experience.

I know we have some experienced IDPA match directors and such around here who could weigh in on that.

As the person responsible for the stage design approval and CoF setup for the 2009 & 2010 IDPA Nationals and the 2011 IDPA World Shoot in September, I can tell you that it's all in the setup. In 2009, the most common comment on CoF's was "sniper match with handguns". Other frequent comments were on how well the locals placed. Many thought it was because we pre-shot all the stages. In fact, it was because we challenge our shooters monthly with tough stages that require accuracy. Most of the pros liked it. A couple didn't, because they couldn't use their blazing speed to put a lot of time between themselves and the sportsmen level masters. A lot of competitors were caught off guard because they were used to shooting spray & pray type stages at their local clubs. At USSA, we have lots of real estate and props, so we use them!

Every shot you fire on the street has a potential liability lawyer attached to it. You need to be able to deliver precise hits under stress. There are times when speed is crucial. That's why we throw Bill Drills at 3 yards while backing up into the mix. But once that's done, I tend to throw in a mixture of off angle, off camber & tight shots. I tend to use non-threats and real hard cover as incentive to use tighter cover than required by the rulebook. I also like to throw in shots that require "throttle modulation". Going from speed, to accuracy and back will easily reveal the shooter who cannot mix it up in their own best interest.

As a 4 Division Master, I tend to design CoF's that can be done slowly and effectively by a Marksman, but give a high Expert to Master just enough rope to hang themselves. I detest CoF's that are designed so that every shooter is expected to do the entire procedure by the designer’s preconceived notions of “tactical”. I look at IDPA as a test of skill with a firearm, not a training ground for tactics. I tell new shooters that if they’ll view IDPA as a way to test their equipment and firearm manipulation skills, they’ll get a lot more satisfaction out of it than if they expect it to simulate real world tactics. The more my weapons manipulation becomes ingrained into the subconscious, the more it frees my mind to focus on the more important tactical aspects of a lethal threat.

Locally, we have two action rifle matches. One follows pretty much along IDPA lines while the other is more USPSA, only with much more accuracy emphasis. Each “C” will cost you a second and each “D” is 3 seconds. Misses are 10 and each HNT is 10 as well. You still need speed, but you can’t miss fast enough to win. As for the Open and Limited AR’s, some of them are surprisingly decent tactical rifles as well. They must run reliably to win and they usually don’t have anything on them that will not help with fast, accurate engagements. Add a light to most of them and they’d do quite well as tac rifles, so long as you didn’t expect them to excel at room clearing.

In the end, it all comes back to stage design. Those that use speed as a crutch aren’t doing their shooters any favors.