SIG 551-A1 lowers how do they look......rant on excellent and crappy customer service

[HK51Fan]

I'm sure most of you know that SIGARMS is/selling the 551-A1 lowers with 2 mags for 369.00.
I had sent my rifle in for a warranty issue, it wasn't cycling reliably, and had one of the SAN buttstocks installed while it was there. I was on the fence about ordering a SAN 551-A1 lower, but was very interested.
It appears that SIG has updated/upgraded their gas system and replaced my old one with a new one that is anodized black, and they were going to ship it back to me.
The whole ordeal lasted about 3 weeks and since it was shipped Fed EX ground there was no way to get a "window" as to when it would be delivered so I had to stay home the entire day to sign for the rifle.
As luck would have it they didn't drop it off until 4:45pm! When I opened the cardboard I could tell immediately the case wasn't mine, and then when I opened it....big surprise....not my rifle!!

I called SIG and was pretty upset. They told me they accidentally sent me a new rifle and to please return it. It's a 45min drive, each way, to drop the weapon off! Needless to say I wasn't a happy camper and let them know it!
I spoke to the manager there, Scott Therien, he was a very pleasant guy and really went the extra mile to make things right for me! I received an email a day later that they were shipping my weapon, and that not only were they shipping my repaired and test fired carbine, they had upgraded the lower to a 551-A1 lower and included 2 SAN 30rd mags....and they also included my 556 lower with the new SAN Swiss buttstock as well!! Needless to say I was STOKED!!! So my rifle with the (2) lowers will be here Thursday Dec 01.

Say what you will about SIG, I don't know of any other company out there that would have done something like this for a customer.

Granted I also own 5 SIG pistols, but WOW! I spent about the same amount of money in time for the lower, but most companies don't give a crap about that and give you the run around.

On a different note, and this is my own fault for falling for gimmick rifles, I bought one of the first MSAR STG556 rifles (#150 of the first 1500 special editions in Green), I heard that MSAR was going through some tough times and "restructuring" so I took my LTD Ed rifle to the range to make sure it went bandg when I pulled the trigger.......guess what it ran like crap, FTF, FTE, double feeds just a mess! I called MSAR, they gave ratworx number the guy at ratworx told me to adjust the gas setting......like I didn't think of that!! It has been 5mos of nothing but the run around and finally I got some guy named charlie to call me back. He told me he was the warranty armorer. i told him the issues and he told me to send him the rifle and the mags and he would make sure it was fixed!! Hooray..........right up until the point I asked for his shippers information or if he wanted to mail or email me a shipping label!! NOTHING!! He told me....uhh.....we don't do that here you have to pay for your own shipping! WTF? I bought a rifle, one of the first one's made, I gave their shitty little company 1K sight unseen upfront and then another 1K 10mos later. I mean they had a few prototypes but they hadn't even made the weapons yet!! They original LTD Edition rifles and purchasers put up the capital to get them up and running....and now when I find out the freakin thing is a paperweight they won't even pony up for the shipping!! If anyone is considering buying an MSAR I would hold unto your money, the customer service is for shit and I guarantee these shady F*(ks will be out of business and you will have a rifle with no spare parts.....might as well turn it into a lamp!

On the flip side the Curahee knife and sheath that came with it is TITs and they make a hell of a good knife. If dave marcell ( or whatever) his name is would pull his head out of his ass and try to get MSAR going again this could all turn around........

So I know neither of these rifles are considered military weapons, but that doesn't mean that shouldn't go bang when you shoot them!

Say what you want about SIG, but they're a class act in my book.

I'll post pics of the patrol carbine and 2 lowers when I get them in a couple of days!

[SteyrAUG]

I almost always pay to ship rifles for work. Hell sometimes I pay shipping and return shipping. And I'm a FFL.

[Iraqgunz]

Just think of how much better the experience would have been if they had devoted so much effort into making it right the first time.

[BullittBoy]

I guess this is the thread to respond about "newer" guns and poor QC/reliability. Especailly MSAR.

Alas, I too purchased one of the MSAR clunkers serial # 1600 and every time I shot it it would double feed about one time every 20-30 rounds. I shot it like this for about 700 rounds before I said this is bullshit for a $1,650 rifle. The sad thing was it was accurate as hell.
SO I call up good old Dave at MSAR and he says run it on the next gas setting for fouled (even though I was running 5.56 spec ammo and cleaned it every range trip). So I tried that and still no dice so I sent it back on my dime. Dave sends it back a week later TO THE WRONG ADDRESS and I have to hunt it down from UPS. I get it delivered and then I look in the box-no expanation of any repairs and no test fire as it was clean as a whistle just like when I sent it. So off to the range I go. Still same exact problem. I have now wasted multiple range trips and ammo for a turd. So I called Dave back, and e-mailed and waited. Finally he tells me they have a NEW BOLT that's the fix.
So he mails me a new bolt, I go to the range and you guessed it-still same shit, failures to extract and double feeds. I call back and say I want my money back. He says no we will send me a NEW one with whatever options I want. So I said send me a new one with a scope on it for my trouble. So I send the old one back again on my dime.
So I wait for the new one-you guessed it they SENT IT AGAIN TO THE WRONG ADDRESS. The funny part is the bolt he sent me came to my correct address, so they had it right all along.
Here's the best part, I pull the brand new rifle out the box and the scope is way too short (must be set up for midgets) and the whole barrel/receiver moves back and forth in the stock a noticeable amount when you grab the front vert. grip. So the whole action moves as you are shooting it left to right in the stock.
So I go to the range and try it out again, and this one is reliable, but shoots groups the size of a pie plate at 100 yards. I contacted Dave and said enough is enough. So he says send it back and they will REFUND MY FFL not me and I have to get him to contact the distributor, and the distributor will refund him, then he can refund me the purchase amount-man if that is not a circle jerk I have never seen one.
So about 2 weeks after that I finally got my money back from my FFL. If I didn't know the guy he probably would have told me to **** off after that fiasco.
They have formally declared Chapter 11 and deserve every bad thing that could happen to them.
Oh and good old Dave went on another gun forum and trashed me the customer saying I did not know how to shoot, and the rifle was perfect after they got it back. But he used a different scope to test it and for all I know could have put it in a good stock before shooting it.

Moral of the story-I took my money and bought a NIB Steyr AUG A3 and it is superb.

Oh then I could tell you about the .17 HMR I bought from Remington that blew up in my hand and the customer service lady asked me if I wanted CREDIT TO BUY ANOTHER RIFLE, they didn't believe in refunding the customer. I told her she was lucky I didn't sue her ass and she changed her mind.
Or the Magnum Research replacement rifle in .17 HMR I purchased that blew up TWO times and they told me they would swap the barrel for a .22 Magnum. I had to argue with them for a refund and then I see 6 months later they recalled every one of them, so did Remington.
Ahhh makes me want to only shoot the pre-bans. That's when guns were built.

Oh and I had a Sig 556 that shot at best 3MOA with a 4x scope and match ammo, I sold it for a little extra when Nobama got elected, never looked back.

[Todd.K]

.17 HMR I bought from Remington that blew up in my hand

Or the Magnum Research replacement rifle in .17 HMR I purchased that blew up TWO times

How many rounds did you shoot before you had problems with the 17?

[BullittBoy]

From what I gathered after many hours of searching on boards was that Remington never really tested these rifles (the 597) and shipped them with same action and recoil springs, etc. as the .22 Mag. The problem is the "dwell" time on the .17 it is extremely fast and the bolt was opening before the round had completely gotten done burning the powder and it was extracting the case and you would get a blown out case and all the gas etc.
The Magnum Research was a different animal built on a 10-22 style receiver and barrel-this thing was a freaking LAZER. It had the carbon fiber barrel and was just awesome looking. I was so sad because they added this gas "vent" under tha barrel supposed to vent off some gas, and they warned to clean the rifle every 100 rounds to prefent carbon buildup in the chamber.
I shot about 50-75 rounds before it blew out the magazine. The gun was sent back anf they put a different bolt handle and supposedly test fired it. I got it back and it did it again to a friend with only 35 rounds, it blew a chunk of hot brass into his hand when it blew the mag out.
I sent it back and got my money back. I was sad like I said it would put 5 rounds into a 1/4" at 50 yards. I bought a Harris bipod and 25 round mags, man I thought I had me a prairie dog shootin machine, but alas no go.
I do hear good things on Volquartsen but they are over a grand for the same gun that MR was selling for $500

[HK51Fan]

I almost always pay to ship rifles for work. Hell sometimes I pay shipping and return shipping. And I'm a FFL.

Then you have more money than sense IMO!!

If I buy an item, say like the ltd ed Tag Heuer I bought a few years ago and it stopped working, I call the manufacturer and request a shipping label to send the item to them.

My Vector had a canted front site, I called them and they emailed me a shipping label, my walther p99's rear site worked itself loose. I called S&W and sent the pistol in to them, they of course emailed me a Fed Ex label......so like I said I'm not asking for anything out of the ordinary.

Now if I had a pistol that I bought and wanted to send it in for them to go over it, and i've done that in the past, then I pony up the money for shipping.

If I buy an item and it doesn't work as advertised, then you can bet I'm not going to have them add insult to injury by making me pay the shipping!!!

[HK51Fan]

From what I gathered after many hours of searching on boards was that Remington never really tested these rifles (the 597) and shipped them with same action and recoil springs, etc. as the .22 Mag. The problem is the "dwell" time on the .17 it is extremely fast and the bolt was opening before the round had completely gotten done burning the powder and it was extracting the case and you would get a blown out case and all the gas etc.
The Magnum Research was a different animal built on a 10-22 style receiver and barrel-this thing was a freaking LAZER. It had the carbon fiber barrel and was just awesome looking. I was so sad because they added this gas "vent" under tha barrel supposed to vent off some gas, and they warned to clean the rifle every 100 rounds to prefent carbon buildup in the chamber.
I shot about 50-75 rounds before it blew out the magazine. The gun was sent back anf they put a different bolt handle and supposedly test fired it. I got it back and it did it again to a friend with only 35 rounds, it blew a chunk of hot brass into his hand when it blew the mag out.
I sent it back and got my money back. I was sad like I said it would put 5 rounds into a 1/4" at 50 yards. I bought a Harris bipod and 25 round mags, man I thought I had me a prairie dog shootin machine, but alas no go.
I do hear good things on Volquartsen but they are over a grand for the same gun that MR was selling for $500

I have a little Taurus pump action in .17hmr I bought a few months ago from a buddy for 250 NIB (well he fired 5rds through it). It's a great little rifle. It have a little twist knob on the reciever and breaks down into 2 parts. I thought it would make a nice little backpacker or camping rifle for small game. Very happy with it!

does anyone have any pics of their 551-A1 lowers from SIG yet or have anyone even recieved their's yet? I know I'm not the only one waiting and watching. i've looked these lowers up and everyone who has handled one has told me they are built well and the 551-a1 have been running very well. So I'm excited to build a patrol carbine with one of these......kind of like a longer barreled 553. If it looks like I think it will I'll probably pony up the money for a real SAN diopter and have it welded to the receiver.

[SteyrAUG]

Then you have more money than sense IMO!!

Actually I have less money because my expectations are different.

IF an item is warrantied I EXPECT it will be fixed for free, I don't assume shipping the item back to them is included in the warranty and I personally feel such expectations are unreasonable.

When a manufacturer OFFERS to cover free shipping I am of course pleased, but I don't expect it and it should only be done in situations where they have already dropped the ball a time or two and are trying to make it up to the customer.

This is what I consider a cost of being "fair and reasonable" where I don't pay more than I should but also don't expect others to pay more than they should.

After all, if you bought something from the local electronics store and it needed to be returned or exchanged you would have to take it back right? You wouldn't expect them to come get it, so it's pretty much the same thing.

The only time I have asked for a return shipping label is if I was sent the wrong item, I shouldn't pay extra for that mistake, or if it was something I didn't order.

[HK51Fan]

We'll agree to disagree.

I think your comparison is off base. If I bought a Kindle Fire from ebay and it showed up with a cracked screen or a battery that would not hold a charge then I wouldn't be expected to pay for the return shipping out of my own pocket especially when I paid for having it shipped to me in the first place, like I did with the MSAR. I bought the rifle and paid for the shipping. So when the rifle shit the bed, on the range, I sure as hell shouldn't have to pay to have it returned and "fixed".