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Thread: I dont want to hear "more expensive"

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrench View Post

    For starters, the .223 is a tiny round that will grossly over-penetrate, and leave a very tiny hole. The idea behind a home defense weapon is to stop whatever/whoever is threatening you on the spot.


    Well, someone needs to learn about terminal ballistics. Might I suggest a quick reading of the stickies in the "Terminal Ballistic Information" forum ?

  2. #102
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    I knew your response in advance- it must have been my ninja skills.

    It is well know that the .223/5.56 round penetrates less than many pistol caliber bullets, and that the 12ga will overpenetrate.

    This has been shown in testing. It is also well known that the 5.56 when loaded with a good round is an effective stopper. I have seen this first hand. Shot placement is what counts, not some mythical magical round.

    Maybe you should spend some time reading the Terminal Ballisitics information that is posted here. Though with your attitude it wouldn't matter much.

    Yeah, I will take the .22 caliber bullet as you refer to it- because I know from first hand experience that it works. I would love to hear about your first hand experience with it.


    Quote Originally Posted by wrench View Post
    Because the Vltor is $2500, and it's the brand of the week. Nothing against them personally, they're nice guns. Too nice, almost. Again, nothing against them personally. I spoke with them at SHOT Show. Nice folks.



    For starters, the .223 is a tiny round that will grossly over-penetrate, and leave a very tiny hole. The idea behind a home defense weapon is to stop whatever/whoever is threatening you on the spot.

    So you have two options. A single .22 cal projectile delivered on target per trigger pull, or you can deliver nine .33 caliber projectiles in a nice even spread pattern, per pull of the trigger. That's over 13 times the ventilation real-estate that you just put in the thoracic cavity of your target, and increases your odds of striking a vital organ by the same 13 fold (otherwise ignoring the law of averages).

    So do you still pick that single .22 cal bullet?

    Nah, you probably make all headshots, eh?

    Well, we can't all be ninjas...



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  3. #103
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    Is this guys serious.....
    I am almost afraid that he is... Wow...

  4. #104
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    Wrench you are way out of your league on this one. IG and some of the others here have forgotten more about this topic than the wrest of us can ever hope to know.

  5. #105
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    So the thread started with a basic comparison of value to price and ends with a ****tard telling everyone the 5.56 NATO round is ineffective for home defense. Geezus did I accidentally log into AR15.com?
    Last edited by Cameron; 12-06-11 at 00:31.
    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    In case anyone is keeping score, Cameron just won.
    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Salad0892 View Post
    Cameron won again.

  6. #106
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    I have $500 sitting in a Paypal account and I can't think of anything better to spend it on, so the first mod pull out the ban stick gets the cash. IG? Anyone?

    Cameron
    Last edited by Cameron; 12-06-11 at 00:36.
    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    In case anyone is keeping score, Cameron just won.
    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Salad0892 View Post
    Cameron won again.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrench View Post
    I'll take it, and leave.
    ============================

    Christcorp...is that you??

    .

  8. #108
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    This does leave me wondering how many times Wrench has been banned from this site.

    There are a number of reasons why I prefer an AR carbine for house defense over a shotgun or handgun, the most important being that under stress, I handle and shoot a rifle better than anything else
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

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  9. #109
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    AR Value

    As a believer in the free market economy I have always felt the value is where a person chooses to spend their money. Some people are more discriminating in values. Others base it strictly on the numbers.

    That being said, in my past work and personal experience I have used a lot of customer service from AR producers. I have placed my money in Customer Service.

    Noveske Rifleworks: You know, you learn a lot about a company when your money goes in before organization money. If you are a government buyer, call and get pricing, there is the whole tax exempt paperwork and quantity purchases. Two thumbs up. Every problem regarding acquisitions I have ever thrown at the company, they found a solution for. Over 50 in service when I left, many more than that now.

    Colt: $90 and several months to reassemble an upper that arrived with a loose barrel nut. Other uppers with same problem were brought to my now current supplier. I was lied to on several occasions by customer service and the "bench staff" working on the upper. Made future buying decisions easy, NOT Colt. Only cost them 125 sales I know of.

    RRA: Customer service was great, over nighted parts fixed and in service in less than 48 hours. Minor issues otherwise over a bunch of rifles.

    Bushmaster: Office wise, not government funded, but personal experience was middle of the road. Supported less than a dozen carbines from other agencies with middle, hit and miss stuff about $500 in parts to fix. No predictable issues, most ran great.

    DPMS: heavy on the WTF issues on a sample of 4. WHY people WHY! These rifles were tax deductions, and the money was wasted by everyone.......

    Yup, value is in the eye of the beholder. Optics are a different matter entirely.

    In the office I currently work in, all of the AR platforms are recreational. Ranking is Noveske, Colt and one guy with a DPMS. It is interesting at times with a 75% veteran rate in my division.

    There will never be a cure for guy stuck with something because of inadequate support documentation, lack of fore sight failing to buck a inept or stone age purchasing process. They can all be beat.

    A person spending their own money, they have to decide what is important to them. Sometimes it is only the look, and they will always pay the lowest amount they can.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrench View Post

    For starters, the .223 is a tiny round that will grossly over-penetrate, and leave a very tiny hole. The idea behind a home defense weapon is to stop whatever/whoever is threatening you on the spot.
    This???? From a "knowledgable AR expert"???? LMMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I am glad I never learned anything from you!


    Justin
    “If you are going through hell, keep going.”
    -Winston Churchill

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