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Thread: I dont want to hear "more expensive"

  1. #111
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    Well, it looks like wrench is gone, but for what it's worth:

    This is what those of us who have to deal with the public and firearms deal with every day.

    What kills me is that these fools wear their ignorance as a badge of honor.

    Something to the effect of, "I'm so cool because I don't know anything about AR's. My redneck coyote/hog/prarie dog killing endeavors have taught me more about the AR platform than all your classes, millitary experience, LEO experience, etc put together."

    I really can't fathom how such an ignorant group of folks can be so proud of their own ignorance, but they are.

    These are the guys who's gunsmithing tools consist of JB Weld and a dremel. Then, they get a job behind a gun counter or start writing magazine articles and suddenly become an "expert."

    Oh well...keep fighting the good fight I guess.
    Semper Paratus Certified AR15 Armorer

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmp45 View Post
    I purchased an M&P15 OR at Gander during the Obama run.. I really wished I had found this site prior. It runs fine but my choice would be a bcm or colt now.. for about the same. Stopped in today at Gander to get some targets and they had a M&P15 OR tagged at $1499. So I guess I made a good investment...
    My cousin has an MP15, (I tried to talk him into buying a BCM, he didn't take my advise) I just installed a MI free float hand guard on said rifle. The barrel nut took a ridiculous amount of force to get off (too much force, broke my table) I finally got the barrel off, began to remove the barrel extension from the barrel only to find another struggle, and buggered up threads on the barrel from the barrel extensions indexing pin, that S&W didn't even bother to debur. Anyway putting everything back together, I noticed that the feed ramps on the barrel extension don't even match the m4 cuts in the receiver ( A few sharp edges=hangups) so I had to re-machine the receiver a bit. I don't think S&W is even in the same solar system as BCM's quality. I know one thing, after seeing this, and owning 2 Walthers: I will never buy another S&W again.
    Last edited by camoman; 12-06-11 at 09:50.

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by camoman View Post
    My cousin has an MP15, (I tried to talk him into buying a BCM, he didn't take my advise) I just installed a MI free float hand guard on said rifle. The barrel nut took a ridiculous amount of force to get off (too much force, broke my table) I finally got the barrel off, began to remove the barrel extension from the barrel only to find another struggle, and buggered up threads on the barrel from the barrel extensions indexing pin, that S&W didn't even bother to debur. Anyway putting everything back together, I noticed that the feed ramps on the barrel extension don't even match the m4 cuts in the receiver ( A few sharp edges=hangups) so I had to re-machine the receiver a bit. I don't think S&W is even in the same solar system as BCM's quality. I know one thing, after seeing this, and owning 2 Walthers: I will never buy another S&W again.
    Why were you removing the barrel extension from the barrel?
    Semper Paratus Certified AR15 Armorer

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrench View Post
    99% of AR-15 owners will NEVER bet their life on an AR. And the ones who do, are probably the least likely to utter the phrase, "bet my life on ___" and most of them don't have a choice as to what they bet their lives on anyway. It's issued by their unit/dept.
    The world is a changing my friend. We have no idea what the future holds and where this Country will go.

    While I like stats and figures as much as the next guy, home invasions and are on the rise. So that number is simply made up.

    Face it, the AR-15 is a terrible home defense weapon. Period. It's a combat weapon. You're not going to be defending your family from an intruder from 50+ yards away, let alone 500 yards.
    Face it, you have no knowledge as to what you are talking about.

    How many Home Defense and CQB classes have you attended with your AR?

    If you want to "bet your life" on a reliable weapon for home defense, get a 12-Gauge pump-action shotgun. It's not terribly tacticool, I know. Major loss of points.
    I have seen more people short strike a pump shotgun (under stress) than I have seen AR's fail in the same circumstances.

    If you're prepping for the Zombie Apocalypse, by all means, get a Vltor.
    I am not sure that anyone is recommending a VLTOR.

    But, at the end of the day, we all know that those cans and paper aren't going to be shooting back, at the majority of people on the internet who insist that they'll never 'bet their lives' on anything but a [insert brand of the month here].
    We always plan for the worst and hope for the best. If you want to stick your head in the sand and never attend any carbine or pistol training, then that is on you and not what this forum is about.



    C4

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrench View Post
    For starters, the .223 is a tiny round that will grossly over-penetrate, and leave a very tiny hole. The idea behind a home defense weapon is to stop whatever/whoever is threatening you on the spot.

    So you have two options. A single .22 cal projectile delivered on target per trigger pull, or you can deliver nine .33 caliber projectiles in a nice even spread pattern, per pull of the trigger. That's over 13 times the ventilation real-estate that you just put in the thoracic cavity of your target, and increases your odds of striking a vital organ by the same 13 fold (otherwise ignoring the law of averages).

    So do you still pick that single .22 cal bullet? Nah, of course you do. You probably make all headshots, eh?

    Well, we can't all be ninjas...
    Sir... Read more, post less. Especially the terminal ballistics and tech forums.
    2012 National Zumba Endurance Champion
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  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrench View Post
    Because the Vltor is $2500, and it's the brand of the week. Nothing against them personally, they're nice guns. Too nice, almost. Again, nothing against them personally. I spoke with them at SHOT Show. Nice folks.



    For starters, the .223 is a tiny round that will grossly over-penetrate, and leave a very tiny hole. The idea behind a home defense weapon is to stop whatever/whoever is threatening you on the spot.

    So you have two options. A single .22 cal projectile delivered on target per trigger pull, or you can deliver nine .33 caliber projectiles in a nice even spread pattern, per pull of the trigger. That's over 13 times the ventilation real-estate that you just put in the thoracic cavity of your target, and increases your odds of striking a vital organ by the same 13 fold (otherwise ignoring the law of averages).

    So do you still pick that single .22 cal bullet?

    Nah, of course you do. You probably make all headshots, eh?

    Well, we can't all be ninjas...

    Please spend some time in the ballistics forum and learn more about what current bullets are available and what they do.

    With that said, the ugly truth is that if you cannot hit the bad guy in a vital zone, then it really doesn't matter if you use a 5.56 or 7.62. Only hits count and since you have never had any real firearms training, then you most likely aren't going to hit anything.



    C4

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASH556 View Post
    Well, it looks like wrench is gone, but for what it's worth:

    This is what those of us who have to deal with the public and firearms deal with every day.

    What kills me is that these fools wear their ignorance as a badge of honor.

    Something to the effect of, "I'm so cool because I don't know anything about AR's. My redneck coyote/hog/prarie dog killing endeavors have taught me more about the AR platform than all your classes, millitary experience, LEO experience, etc put together."

    I really can't fathom how such an ignorant group of folks can be so proud of their own ignorance, but they are.

    These are the guys who's gunsmithing tools consist of JB Weld and a dremel. Then, they get a job behind a gun counter or start writing magazine articles and suddenly become an "expert."

    Oh well...keep fighting the good fight I guess.
    For what it's worth, I never said that it's not a great military/fighting weapon. For ranges that are going to exceed 100', I'll take the AR. But home defense is up-close and personal, and it's hard to beat 12-gauge 00 buckshot.

    I know, I know, as I said before, it's not as tacticool as the AR, so it loses points with the mall-ninja crowd; but it's pretty devastating at personal-defense ranges.

    Now, if you're going to be fighting an urban war (or zombies), then the AR is great for that. It doesn't change the fact that 99% of personally-owned ARs are nothing more than range toys.

    Disagree all you want. I know you will... I'm sure you're an 'operator', who gets kills (headshots, no less), daily. It's amazing how many you meet on the internet.
    Last edited by wrench; 12-06-11 at 10:10.
    I manufacture barrels, guy.

    Nothing in the rules when I signed up said that I would have to volunteer my name to be dragged through the mud by a bunch of blowhards who are so incredibly self-absorbed that they quote THEMSELVES in their own signature lines; just because I shared an opinion that differed with their world view.

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASH556 View Post
    Why were you removing the barrel extension from the barrel?
    Please don't give too much crap. Ignorance, is the reason. For some reason I thought the feed ramps where actually pressed into the receiver. This was the first time I have ever had the barrel off an AR

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by camoman View Post
    My cousin has an MP15, (I tried to talk him into buying a BCM, he didn't take my advise) I just installed a MI free float hand guard on said rifle. The barrel nut took a ridiculous amount of force to get off ...
    Had the same experience with the barrel nut on mine when installing the trx.

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by camoman View Post
    Please don't give too much crap. Ignorance, is the reason. For some reason I thought the feed ramps where actually pressed into the receiver. This was the first time I have ever had the barrel off an AR
    Oh, I wasn't trying to give crap, just curious.
    Semper Paratus Certified AR15 Armorer

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