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As a S&W LE Distributor, let me say that the S&W M&P line is not crap and would take them over such brands as RRA, BM, DPMS, Oly, etc.
With that said, it does NOT hold a candle to BCM, DD, Noveske, KAC, LMT and Colt.
Even with holding the gun in their hands and shooting it, people have no idea what makes a quality AR and what does not. This is where a forum like M4C comes into play. You have people that have WAY more knowledge than the common shooter and share it.
C4
I find this thread to be my general stance on purchasing any firearm. Why would I want to buy something that is not of good quality?
I am looking to get a 6920 as soon as I can get my mitts on one. Plan on popping an Aimpoint Pro (or equivalent) on it. From the various posts I've read, it sounds like the 6920 can be accessorized or swapped out with different parts with lots of options. Is it basically the Remington 870 of the AR-15 world?
How many of them are running today? Do you see them in classes? I was buying nothing but Colt parts from sources like YTM during that time simply because Colt meant quality parts (not Quality Parts, Inc, i.e. Bushamster,) putting Colt flat-top uppers and barrels on Colt lowers. Is having to run offset pins (Colt-made, not DPMS trash) inconvenient? Sure. But our all Colt parts guns (FrankenColt?) still run in 2011, e.g. three-day EAG classes, not plinking.
The LAV recommends Daniel Defense, Bravo Company and Colt.
Which of these were in business in the late '90s?
Last edited by Submariner; 12-05-11 at 16:41.
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"I don’t care how many pull ups and sit ups you can do. I care that you can move yourself across the ground with a fighting load and engage the enemy." Max Velocity
Hmm, not exactly the parallel I would draw. The ar-15 is itself versatile in nature and can be swapped out with parts/accessories regardless of who made it. The Colt 6920 is, however, the AR15 that most closely follows the Technical Data Packet (TDP) specifications for the M16, which ensures the quality and testing necessary to achieve sustainable long-term operation.
Semper Paratus Certified AR15 Armorer
True, you didn't say it was a POS. I guess I waxed a little hyperbolic. The point is, if you had to learn on the internet that you shouldn't be happy with it, then you SHOULD be happy with it. A lot of what the internet knows isn't necessarily true.
I've seen just about every single one of the boutique brands fail in one way or another. Seen Colts with broken bolts, and loose carrier keys, even one that was doubling. This is a known-issue with a lot of Colts. Even back in the late 80s-early 90s, Colt and the BATF screwed a guy over pretty hard over a Colt that was doubling. He sent it in for service, and SOMEBODY told the ATF that he was mailing a "machingun", the ATF intercepted the package, fired it until it doubled, and then charged him with having a machine gun.
Just because it's got a horse on it doesn't mean it's perfect. And just because it doesn't have a horse on it doesn't mean it's not a great gun.
I'd just shoot it, and not worry about what others think about it.![]()
Really? Because I have dealt with more than my fair share of Colts and I can tell you that is not the case. I can only assume that you are repeating secondhand experience.
Your whole Colt/ATF story smells like shit and I would love to see a reliable source for this. If someone truly had a weapon that malfunctioned and "doubled" and then sent it in, it would clearly show that the intent was to rectify the isssue.
What exactly is a "boutique" brand? Are you referring to a brand that actually tries to built a quality weapon and cares whether or not if it works?
I can't tell you haven't been around much. Otherwise you would know that most of us have stated that ANYTHING ASSEMBLED BY MAN can fail.
The difference being that certain companies actually have a standard that they built to, they will address and fix the problem when it is brought to their attention and they listen to the market.
Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms
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I find it odd you keep kicking this. I didn't complain about my m&p, never said I wasn't happy with it. Has nothing to with what others think, I could care less. Just pointed out that I could have done better for the cost with a BCM or Colt. Grant's post above pretty much sums it up. It's not that complicated.
Your new here, after you've been here for awhile you'll recognize the members on this forum by the most part are seasoned and contribute valuable dialog worth taking note.
Nope, firsthand. I've personally been standing there when a colt doubled on the range, and I've had one brought to me to have looked at, because it had the same problem.
This was during the Janet Reno era. You know, Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc. They weren't too concerned about "intent". Pretty sure the guy won in court, but not before spending a pretty penny on attorney's fees.Your whole Colt/ATF story smells like shit and I would love to see a reliable source for this. If someone truly had a weapon that malfunctioned and "doubled" and then sent it in, it would clearly show that the intent was to rectify the isssue.
I think you know what a boutique brand is. Noveske, Vltor, POF, etc.What exactly is a "boutique" brand? Are you referring to a brand that actually tries to built a quality weapon and cares whether or not if it works?
Sure, but again, if you have to learn from the internet that you're not supposed to be satisfied with the rifle, then that speaks well for the rifle. They can all break. S&W has a warranty too, you know... You seem to be implying that they do not.I can't tell you haven't been around much. Otherwise you would know that most of us have stated that ANYTHING ASSEMBLED BY MAN can fail.
The difference being that certain companies actually have a standard that they built to, they will address and fix the problem when it is brought to their attention and they listen to the market.
I didn't say they're all good. I said that there's nothing wrong with his S&W, if there's nothing wrong with his S&W.
His comment indicated that he would have otherwise been happy with his purchase, if not for the internet telling him he shouldn't be; and I find that a little absurd, and quite possibly a sad reflection of the attitudes of the forum.
I'm the new kid in this forum, but based on what I've seen so far, a lot of what goes on here seems to be a big circle jerk; and, as one person put it, 'a lot of sniffing of one another's farts'.![]()
Last edited by wrench; 12-05-11 at 22:06.
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