9mm Carbine for HD

[Traveshamockery]

Shooting a 9mm inside would be unpleasant to anyone's ears in a none defensive scenario.

But as Grossman has shown... defensive gunfire often isn't heard by the shooter at all....

The sound may not be consciously perceived, but the pressure waves still have the same potential to permanently damage hearing.

[markm]

The sound may not be consciously perceived, but the pressure waves still have the same potential to permanently damage hearing.

For the millionth time.... Grossman provides evidence that contradicts this belief.

I doubt I'll feel any better going to my grave knowing I had ZERO hearing loss in the gunfight I lost.

(even if there were permanent hearing damage, it beats the hell out of permant death - I'm being a little overboard here to illustrate the absurdity of the priorities in a life/death situation)

[Cold]

All you have to do is look to the CQB realm... the vast majority of teams have gone away from the sub gun to the carbine.

It wouldn't be a bad choice... but it's not the optimal choice. CERTAINLY better than a handgun.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts too.

[Iraqgunz]

Didn't those threads clearly make the case for using the 5.56 round? I thought they did.

Obviously if you had no other options......but in the end you still have a long gun, that fires a 9mm bullet and there are still overpenetration concerns.

The threads on using an AR-15 in 5.56/.223 for home defense got me thinking......what do you guys think about using a 9mm carbine for home defense?

[Iraqgunz]

I think there may be a little misunderstanding here. The damage will be caused, regardless of whether or not you perceive it at the time or not.

But, in the bigger scheme of things, it would low down on my list of concerns in a SHTF scenario. Walking away without perforations would be more important.

For the millionth time.... Grossman provides evidence that contradicts this belief.

I doubt I'll feel any better going to my grave knowing I had ZERO hearing loss in the gunfight I lost.

(even if there were permanent hearing damage, it beats the hell out of permant death - I'm being a little overboard here to illustrate the absurdity of the priorities in a life/death situation)

[dpaqu]

I read thru all those other threads and this is the only one that matters


https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=44869
Interesting that DocGKR does not make any argument that the 556 round has better terminal ballistics than modern handgun ammo, but relies on the training and ergo advantage of an AR15 to make his argument.

[tb-av]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveshamockery View Post
The sound may not be consciously perceived, but the pressure waves still have the same potential to permanently damage hearing.

MarkM wrote:
For the millionth time.... Grossman provides evidence that contradicts this belief.

I don't know who Grossman is but if he thinks that you develop some magical hearing protection when you are in a gunfight, he would have a hard time proving it to me. How did he get evidence? I'm thinking volunteers would be hard to come by.

Your brain can and will adjust to lots of sounds in various ways but it would be a real stretch to think that instant hearing protection is one of those adjustments.

[Terminator2003]

I don't know who Grossman is but if he thinks that you develop some magical hearing protection when you are in a gunfight, he would have a hard time proving it to me. How did he get evidence? I'm thinking volunteers would be hard to come by.

Your brain can and will adjust to lots of sounds in various ways but it would be a real stretch to think that instant hearing protection is one of those adjustments.

yep, that is exactly what I was thinking as well! You may have some change in your perception of the sound due to an adrenaline dump, but that doesn't mean that your ear drums won't be impacted by the sound waves in the same way!

As for the carbine argument, I haven't had a chance to read through those other discussions, but my thinking is that I would much rather have a 9mm carbine for HD with some good hollowpoint ammo than a carbine in .223 FMJ (for example) because there will definitely be a big difference in penetration/over-penetration between the rounds, yet the 9mm HP ammo will be very effective stopping power without as much risk of killing your neighbors, or family in adjacent rooms. Not saying you can't still have some over-penetration, but the HP ammo will certainly slow down a lot once it impacts/expands from the initial hit.

[thei3ug]

I think you missed a wink, but yes, physics is a harsh mistress.
My grandfather's near total hearing loss, my brother's perforated eardrum, or the angels singing sweetly in my own ears 24 hours a day will stand testament to that.

Regardless this is a behavioral issue, not a ballistics issue.

[markm]

I don't know who Grossman is.

Evidently.

If you get a chance to read ON COMBAT you'll see what I'm talking about. His studies on the bodies reaction to combat are too throrough to cover here.

It's a good book for anyone who wants to be prepared for lethal confrontation. Understanding what the body does is important for surviving a deadly confrontation.