Sick of bad advice to beginners.

**thopkins22** · 12-07-11, 11:16

There are enough reports of the sound of a gun being racked(I don't think it's unique to shotguns,) sending invaders/thieves running off that it would be silly to ignore it. It's probably the most controversial thing I've ever said on this site, but enough with the chest thumping already. It's happened, and it will most likely happen again.

The same is true for lasers, there are enough reports from Iraq of putting a visible laser or two on a windshield causing the cars to stop much more efficiently that I don't think it can be ignored.

Perhaps the disconnect is that people are advocating that the sound is all you'll need? That there's no need to train to actually send lead out the front of it into a body? If that's the case then it's certainly hogwash. But since the whole point is to end the encounter without being injured, why dismiss a proven(albeit far from 100% effective) deterrent?

**CumbiaDude** · 12-07-11, 16:20

Originally Posted by thopkins22

Perhaps the disconnect is that people are advocating that the sound is all you'll need?

I think that's exactly the objection. .22lr has killed many a people. Shooting somebody in the thigh has made people collapse and give up instantly. Racking a shotgun can make a burglar run away.

But there's a difference between what could happen and what is responsible to expect and train for.

**Axcelea** · 12-07-11, 17:56

Originally Posted by thopkins22

There are enough reports of the sound of a gun being racked(I don't think it's unique to shotguns,) sending invaders/thieves running off that it would be silly to ignore it. It's probably the most controversial thing I've ever said on this site, but enough with the chest thumping already. It's happened, and it will most likely happen again.

The same is true for lasers, there are enough reports from Iraq of putting a visible laser or two on a windshield causing the cars to stop much more efficiently that I don't think it can be ignored.

Perhaps the disconnect is that people are advocating that the sound is all you'll need? That there's no need to train to actually send lead out the front of it into a body? If that's the case then it's certainly hogwash. But since the whole point is to end the encounter without being injured, why dismiss a proven(albeit far from 100% effective) deterrent?

Although I see that it probably does occur I am not sure if it can be proven as 100% fact. So many other variables are going on that could cause someone to bolt such as presence of the person, person with the gun, person with any weapon, etc that it could be a coincidence as well as alternatively shouting "stop I have a gun" or chambering a different weapon. Also could have some negative behavior caused by it such as an increased chance of fight instead of flight (person gets more desperate so lashes out at the person where an alternate strategy might increase flight or surrender) not to mention the possibility of being more compromised in terms of ability to fend off an attack if racking a shotgun is done.

With the possible negative results going against a fairly low advantage I don't think its a good reason to base ones defensive plans around.

Laser comparison I see being a tad off since mostly you don't compromise yourself with using a laser, its pretty much the best way of letting someone know "your on them", and so on although they do both have that intimidation principle.

Course the main reason why that thought is frowned upon so much is the implication that that is good enough.

**tpd223** · 12-07-11, 19:44

Originally Posted by CumbiaDude

I think that's exactly the objection. .22lr has killed many a people. Shooting somebody in the thigh has made people collapse and give up instantly. Racking a shotgun can make a burglar run away.

But there's a difference between what could happen and what is responsible to expect and train for.

Exactly.

I know of cases where the bad guy was shot and he then fought harder and meaner.

Best to be ready for the worst case type of guy than count on bullshit to carry the day.

**yellow50** · 12-08-11, 06:35

"I know of cases where the bad guy was shot and he then fought harder and meaner." This is why you shoot to stop, not to injure. I have actually heard applicants during an oral interview for a Leo position state that they would shoot a bad guy in the leg, or shoot the gun out of their hand. Too much tv I guess.

**Pork Chop** · 12-08-11, 06:54

Originally Posted by yellow50

"I know of cases where the bad guy was shot and he then fought harder and meaner." This is why you shoot to stop, not to injure. I have actually heard applicants during an oral interview for a Leo position state that they would shoot a bad guy in the leg, or shoot the gun out of their hand. Too much tv I guess.

You've got to be kidding me? That's amazing.

The idea that the sound of a racking shotgun will scare BG's away is pretty laughable. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I sure as hell wouldn't depend on it. Why announce to you're intruder what you're armed with? Seems like you're giving them an upper hand by tipping yours in my mind.

Why not just keep a baseball bat and when someone breaks in just hit it on the door jamb and yell "I'll hit you real hard with my bat!"?

I'd prefer the element of surprise remain in my favor, but that's just me?

**Moltke** · 12-08-11, 11:29

Bad advice to beginners is a common thing and I'm not surprised that you're sick of it. Let's face it, if you're not a hunter or a LEO, there are more people who are into guns because they think they're cool than people who are trying to be professionals (or at least of the more professional mindset).

So since most people are into being cool rather than being professional, and most people are generally uninformed; it makes sense to me that nonsense gets perpetuated for so long. Just like so many people say things like rack the shotgun to scare them away, or a .45 will knock someone back, etc etc.

Most new shooters and gun owners are going to ask the people they know who are more knowledgeable about firearms for advice, but alot of those people probably don't know what they're talking about. It's hard to be informed and educated on everything, and most people aren't educated on much at all.

So if you're into guns because they're cool, and you want to be looked at as cool by other gun owners - then wouldn't it make sense to say and do things that will get you towards that goal? Things that make you feel like a badass with a firearm?

Shoot the gun out of their hand!
Rack the shotgun and scare 'em away!
A .45 will knock someone down if you hit them in the hand!
The Judge is amazing best home defense gun ever!
AK's never jam they're the best rifle ever!

What are some other pieces of bad advice new gun owners tend to get told/believe/think?

**Vlobb** · 12-08-11, 12:27

I've heard this so many times it's insane... almost as insane as the people that actually believe this shit. It's been my experience that the people that harbor this mindset have no ****ing clue about guns or how to use them especially when it counts. They may own guns but they haven't shoot them in a decade or two.

I'll never "rack" my SG to stop an intruder. I'm not going to tell the BG what exactly it is that I'm armed with and I'm not giving my position away. The only way a bad guy will here my SG in action is if I miss with the first shot.