1-4x Scope for Duty use?

[bp7178]

The S&B I have is a SFP version, the Short Dot LE.

I think there is a direct connection to exit pupil/eye box to how easy a scope is to use outside of the ideal cheek weld and eye releif. Both the TR24 and S&B I've owned/own excell in this role, and both have a 1x exit pupil of roughly 14-17mm. The TR24 was on the upper end, but I think the S&B has a bigger occular lens.

My very first scope was a Leatherwood CMR, which had an exit pupil of 11mm. The Leupold Mark 4 1.5-5x I owned and hated was pretty small as well. The Leupold also seemed to have a pretty small occular lens. With both the CMR and Mark 4, if the scope was out of alignment the image would black out. The TR24 and S&B didn't do this.

When shooting targets as large as a torso from 10 yards, as fast as possible, you really only need a rudementary alignment of the sighting system. If you're trying to punch an X ring from the supine posistion at 10 yards, I think to some degree you're doing it wrong.

Even with a T-1 or an Eotech, there is still an alignment that has to take place to place the dot on the target. I would disagree that there is a "substantial" difference between doing this with a RDS and a 1-4x, at least until one could define what exactly substantial meant...to put a quanity on it.

I'm not a genius or a veteran of years of combat. that's why I pay money to other people to get their experience and training. since I do this and trust they know what they are talking about, I do the good student thing and shut up, listen, and try to learn as much as they have to offer. if in your experience this tactic is BS, and if I ever pay you to train me, then you'll get an opportunity to explain why. in the mean time, I don't care to object to something under the guise of cynicism. I'll just do my best to learn the technique as presented and move on...

I would expect that anyone in a class would shut up and go with the instruction, no one wants to be next to "that guy" on the range.

My argument/discussion on the supine posistion was more to the point that its the one go to that everyone arguing the virtues of a RDS uses...and I believe its very limited in application. As a part of an overal lesson it has virtue, but I wouldn't exclude a class of optics because someday you may need to shoot in that exact posistion, which is more than likely, un-likely to occur.

Anyone would have a hard time convincing me the PID/precise shot placement benefit of a low power variable has less advantage than being able to shoot from the supine posistion with a RDS.

My point about the ACOG was only that people get all wrapped up in having perfect eye releif with magnified optics. You don't need it, not with quality optics anyway. A shooter doesn't need perfect edge to edge clarity to place a shot at short range.

[Alaskapopo]

Slight side-track: Those who are utilizing magnified optics on patrol rifles, are you shooting a different Q course or additional stages to assess performance with the magnification? Additional formal training or at least familiarization with the magnified optic? (Same, if using an added magnifier with a 1x RDS in lieu of a magnified optic?)

Same qualificaiton course. No additional training. I wish I could get the guys a lot more training than they get.

[Mitch1352]

I have a Nightforce NXS 1-4 on my Noveske 10.5 CQB. It has the FC2 reticle on a Larue qd mount. It is kinda heavy but for a patrol rifle, I think it works well for me. I work in an environment that is both urban and rural, so the 1-4 covers just about everything I should need.

[cabbynate]

I might get kicked in the teeth for posting this but here goes. How about adding one of these http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-t...achment-lt-137 to your 1-4? I am thinking about a NightForce 1-4 in the LaRue mount with that setup. Not to be tactacool but just in case I need a red dot for a fast awkward shot.

[snakedoc257]

I am now contemplating a similar setup. A 1-4x scope and a small red to on a 45 degree mount. I think that would work well.

[cabbynate]

I am now contemplating a similar setup. A 1-4x scope and a small red to on a 45 degree mount. I think that would work well.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that is considering this set up. My old eyes need the magnification when I can use it but if you end up on your back or in a fast fire up close situation you have your red dot on board to help take care of business.. At least that is my train of though on it..

[cop1211]

I don't think that's needed with a 1-4 at all. Literally the time difference between cqb firing with my rds vs. my 1-4 is measured in tenths of seconds. Also you can fire from the supine position with a 1-4. The real world value of that position has also been discussed.

Get the 1-4 and train with it. Those off set mounts are for higher magnification optics.

Totally not needed for the 1-4.

[snakedoc257]

Okay thanks, I think I will hold off on mounting an offset RDS. I'm leaning toward the tac30 or the mtac right now. I think the illumination will help.

Any one have experience with the Nikon m223 though?

[bp7178]

I'm not a huge fan of the offset mount which replaces half of the mount ring. It places the RDS on a weird offset of being higher and to the right.

I think the 45 degree solutions would be better.

On a 1-4x, I don't know if its needed per se. On a 2.5-10x or, one optic I would love to try, Swaro's 1.7-10, I think a RMR or a T-1 on a 45 would be the heat.

[nickdrak]

I am a huge fan of my Trijicon TR24G and I am just as fast, or faster up-close when shooting CQB drills with my TR24G than I am with my Eotech XPS or any Aimpoint I have ever run.

Having said that, I dont think a 1-4x is the best choice for a LE patrol rifle depending on the type of environment you work in. Due to the high likelyhood of fighting in, around, and under vehicles I think a Eotech or Aimpoint is better suited for this type of role. Is a 1-4x useable when shooting under vehicles in compromised shooting positions such as SBU Prone or Rollover Prone? Sure, with enough training you can make it work but an Eotech or Aimpoint still has definite benefits in this role.

If you work out in a rural environment where a distance shot out past 100yds may be more of a likelyhood for you then the 1-4x has undeniable benefits.